Off topic: A BearBones lifestyle and minimalism.

[HaYWiRe]

This is gonna sound a bit senseless and unrelated to cycling but hear me out.

Since getting into lightweight travel (ultralight backpacking, bikepacking, ect) ive started to realise how wasteful and burdened the rest of my life is. I have little problem fitting my "life" into tiny bike bags or a suitcase but have always struggled to fit it into my home, an odd situation I know.

Ive found myself going days using so few possessions and clothes whilst on the road that returning home and seeing my bursting wardrobe actually stresses me out. I almost feel I could actually life indefinitely out of what I can carry, which leaves me to wonder "why do I still have all this other stuff?"

Am I alone in this? Has anyone else learnt from touring how,little we actually need to be comfortable? Even at home?

(oh, and I may have just black bagged up 20kg of clothes to get rid of.....feels, refreshing)

[Scattamah]

You're not alone. I went from 2 storey house with rooms for everything down to 1 room apt with just what I need. I could cut back a lot further again with some compromises here and there. Me 'n the missus would like to pair down further and live out of a LWB Sprinter (http://www.sprinter-rv.com/the-great-ca ... onversion/ - check out the bike garage!)...but that's in the future.

Greetz

S.

[cyclingtiger]

I routinely get rid of worn out and redundant things like clothes, shoes etc. I also try to avoid buying those sorts of things for the sake of it.

Alas, I do like owning certain things that I would find it hard to declutter from. Books (especially my collection of graphic novels), a well equipped kitchen, bicycles, etc...

I'm sure that between us, the Mrs and I could probably clear out a room's worth of stuff that we really don't need or want but I don't think I would want to live a minimalist lifestyle. I enjoy it when I'm on the road, the simplicity and utility but less so at home.

[RIP]

Nice thread, nuffin wrong with a bit of idle philosophy on a Tuesday afternoon. Can see it turning into one of those mega-threads though. There can't be any doubt there's far too much waste taking place in every facet of life - power, food, even people (talents,futures etc) if you want to get really "deep". Stuff not made to last long, stuff falling to bits - I'd be interested to know how much time we spend "refurbishing" or maintaining things, whether that's houses, motors, bikes, bodies, whatever. Everything rusts in its own little way and has to be tarted up, or bits replaced etc. So yep, get rid of it all and see how frugal you can be. Most of the problem can be laid at the door of the time when the word "debt" was replaced by the word "credit" so it sounded cuddlier and since then most of the population have acquired piles of junk on the never-never, the national bill for which can now never be paid off either financially, and possibly even environmentally but time will tell. Probably better to acquire a few pals, one or two things that are nice to look at, and take pleasure in using your senses rather than your wallet. There was that story of someone's house that burnt down and they lost everything. They decided not to replace any of it and never been happier, apparently. Bit extreme that is perhaps, so instead maybe we could do worse than check out Bike Riding Piano Tuning Man again .

Erm, now where's my nasal hair remover gone to. Last time I saw it it was behind the petrol-powered leaf blower in the garage next to the patio heater.

"Reg"

[HaYWiRe]

I have always been the opposite untill the last year or so.
New stuff, hobbies, better stuff for said hobbies, tools, diy projects. Then there's the philosophy of preparation, survival, EDC, and expecting to deal with all eventualities. All this gets worse when I always feel I need better, always modify, hack, diy everything and keep stuff for said projects, and constantly find new hobbies. It quickly just all gets too much.

But suddenly I found my self getting stressed and frustrated at the amount of stuff I own. My bedroom looks like a backpack shop and under the bed (and on the wall,in the wardrobe) has thousands of pounds of Airsoft equipment! Maybe its because I find new hobbies but I cant believe how long its taken to see how ridiculous it is.

I travel alot now, whether by bike/car/bus/train and even only a couple miles a time. I sleep in different places, outside, at my partners apartment, at a mates or in hotels/caravans and all this I comfortably do out of tiny bags.

Honestly, if I was stranded or left with only what's on my back, would I miss anything at home? in the same position, would you? and is it odd to literally wake up one morning and not have any sentimentality to anything anymore?

Yes I like nice bikes, clothes and bags, but now I just see these as tools.

[RIP]

Sounds like you're just starting to enjoy the early stages of a nice healthy mid-life crisis HW! Don't fight it, go with the flow, embrace it, make a few small changes, make a few big ones, see what happens. I was very taken with Stu's quote the other day about maybe people'd be better off losing themselves more often rather than trying to find themselves .

Anyway, just ignore my ramblings, I'm having a bad day after losing my nose hair remover. Still, while there's a Bear there's always a little corner of hope and sanity(?) to hide in as and when required.

[fatbikephil]

I've got a fair bit of stuff and am slowly heading towards a bit of a clearout however compared to some people I know I'm actually fairly clutter free. Being into old motobikes has introduced me to many people with literally mountains of bike stuff, unfinished projects, spares etc, all of which will be used 'some day.' In too many cases they've passed away long before any of this stuff has seen the light of day and it often gets sold for a song to vulture dealers (who are always on the look out for this kind of thing) or worse, scrapped by surviving families who have no desire or hope of sorting it all out and selling it for its true worth. So don't worry bikepacking and cycling stuff doesn't take up too much room so shouldn't be too much of a burden.

Phil
(4 motorbikes, 5 bicycles and the makings of 3 more, 5 tents, 5 sleeping bags, 3 mats, 20 pairs of boots, 6 pairs of skis, 15 helmets..... I could go on )

[Charliecres]

All you need are some flints and a big pair of pants made out of an otter.

[HaYWiRe]

You dont want me to list my outdoor gear....i could outfit a troop! Though I am gonna put together a "loaner kit" for the family soon, hopefully get some use.

And midlife crisis? I'm only 20! No bills or debt yet

Hard part for me is getting rid of stuff, not for sentiment but actual monetary value.
When there's alot of money worth, with crap resale or someone spent alot of money on it for me its hard to part as its always value lost. Need to snap out of it.

How do you get rid of value, when it no longer has value?
I dont suppose anyone here needs another hobby?

And I agree that debt, ahem, credit is a lure to buy stuff you dont need or cant afford so I'm lucky to catch on before I start. I have no finance, credit or debt anywhere, only live to my means and don't intend to change that. Just hope I'm not forced to.

[Zippy]

Phil
(4 motorbikes, 5 bicycles and the makings of 3 more, 5 tents, 5 sleeping bags, 3 mats, 20 pairs of boots, 6 pairs of skis, 15 helmets..... I could go on )

Legend!

Variety is the spice of life, and I think you appreciate less when you have more and vice versa. I'm er at 3 cars, 4 bikes, 3 sleeping bags, 4 sets of cycling shoes, 5 powered drills (+1 manual one), 4 sets of cycling shoes)...

Actually I find it's the clutter and unnecessary that get to n the way rather than the number of possessions. I er scanned loads of photos, ripped my CD music collection and properly organised all my spares and tools, and it's far more minimal like that .

Zip

[atk]

Hard part for me is getting rid of stuff, not for sentiment but actual monetary value.
When there's alot of money worth, with crap resale or someone spent alot of money on it for me its hard to part as its always value lost. Need to snap out of it.

How do you get rid of value, when it no longer has value?

Accept the majority of things won't increase in value over time, decide how much time/effort you want to spent selling stuff (low price = low effort) but also accept that your "loss" can be someone else (possibly less fortunate) gain and with a bit of luck they'll get a fair amount of use/enjoyment out of your gear (assuming you don't sell it to someone who'll flip it on eBay/STW etc. for a profit, don't think that's really a problem here but is on other forums...)

[HaYWiRe]

Its the unnecessary and clutter that get in the way, always does but I suppose its what you consider Unnecessary that changes over time, it applies to bikepacking and it applies to everything else just as well.

I still love my bikes, my bags and my replica firearms, but you could still put all those to one side and I've still got so much left!

Ive already pared my entire wardrobe down to 1 drawer, my whole medicine/toiletry cabinet fits in a 1.5L packing cube. Just money worth of "hobby" is next, and the hardest part...

[cyclingtiger]

When I'm selling things that have inherent value to me, I try to think of how much value I've gotten out of using the item and deduct that from what it's original cost. Usually that puts it below market value and makes for a quick sale.

[jameso]

Adventure and experience is popular now, more so than a decade or so ago, probably because people are tired of the 'buy more crap' message in life. 'Advertising has us chasing junk we don't need and doing jobs we don't like to pay for it all' .. etc.

Consumption is a major problem for the world imo, but minimalism is a luxury we can afford to aspire to - riding through some places makes you realise that we always have it easy and 'playing hobo' is a bit silly really. I can imagine a mix of bewilderment and confusion from people in many parts of the world where they have little, not enough of many things, then they see someone like us riding past 'looking for an experience' or something like that.

Into The Wild is a good read - that guy had it right about minimalism, he fully committed to it. It's a shame he didn't make it back.

How do you get rid of value, when it no longer has value?

Change your definition of value, accept the 'loss' as a lesson and repeat the mistake less in future? Donate things to charity and see it as added value?

[ton]

riding expensive bikes, draped in expensive bike luggage, carrying lightweight expensive cooking/sleeping/clothing equipment is hardly leading a minimalist lifestyle.
it is just a lifestyle, like any other, say a petrolhead, or a music loving techno geek.
this kind of cycling (bikepacking) requires more gear that any other form of cycling. it is just has fashion/latest gear led as is any other branch of cycling.

[jay91]

riding expensive bikes, draped in expensive bike luggage, carrying lightweight expensive cooking/sleeping/clothing equipment is hardly leading a minimalist lifestyle.
it is just a lifestyle, like any other, say a petrolhead, or a music loving techno geek.
this kind of cycling (bikepacking) requires more gear that any other form of cycling. it is just has fashion/latest gear led as is any other branch of cycling.

That's bang on

[Trail-rat]

I like to think of it as appropriation of funds as oppose to minimalist life style....

my car is crap , my clothes are crap and not many , my tvs small and inoffensive - as is my house - with no aspirations for a bigger one either.

we have a nice (but old) stereo , a well equipped workshop and some nice bikes.

We go nice places and eat nice food instead.

"Into The Wild is a good read - that guy had it right about minimalism, he fully committed to it. It's a shame he didn't make it back."

I dont agree, in the end the message i took was yes escape , but humans need company and to strike a balance - he realises this in the end - certainly in my interpretation and understanding :D - but then i was never any good at english at school.

But yes great book.

having worked for 7 weeks in isolation with a significant language barrier (my russian isnt very good and i find it a hard language to learn ) no conversational company for long periods really dumbs you down and it takes time to readjust to normality.

[jameso]

TR, yes agreed, good point - I get get bored after a week riding alone and I can be happily anti-social. I was thinking about how he gave away his money and committed to his aims. Back/bikepacking on a shoestring and all that is all well and good but with a safety net of a bank account and home comforts to return to I don't see it being more than a nice mental break, a holiday (no-one's suggesting otherwise here .. just that 'epic escape / find yourself' sort of idea that goes around).

Reg makes a good point about durability of things. I really like simple stuff that lasts - a £2k bike can be minimal in a way if you keep it 10, 15 years or more, just maintaining it as you go. Same attitude got >200,000 miles out of my old car. Love seeing old, looked-after cars still on the road, or things that were nice when new and have gained value through long life. Probably explains my love of simple CrMo bikes.

[atk]

While we drift off topic, for those that have read Into The Wild, the author's has continued to follow up and find the actual cause for Chris' death. Worth a read if you bought the book before 2015... https://medium.com/galleys/how-chris-mc ... .b725r6nge

[Trail-rat]

that book is a great reality check tbh .

When ever im pissed off with life/humanity/work etc and want to go live up a remote scottish glen

I read some of that book.

And yes good point on krakaurs take on things..... it seems they are rarely representitive of actual events.

FWIW

I could live with less things in a smaller house - how ever my workshop is non negotiable.... i spend most of my time in there + give a man a fish - he has a fish . Give him a fishing rod and teach him how to fish - he can feed for life.

my Tools are my fishing rod.

[Sarah]

Great thread, thanks.

I moved back to UK 7 years ago, divorced and chose a lifestyle and income very very different to my 6 figure US previously. I work in a school, get paid a pitance, have long holidays, great job satisfaction [not inconsiderable amount of stress tho] and travel and do as much as I can. Buy very little, especially not new, dont go out very often, got rid of TV years ago, highly recommend that for removing time wasting and advertising ! Try to negate waste and environmental impact; mend, recycle, reuse, charity shops etc. Lots of great trips and adventures instead. My colleagues often ask how I do it, but then they go and buy a new dress and shoes for a fancy night out getting pissed and taxi home.

Love to hear how others manage, what you do/dont do, what you value or choose as important other than bigger better and more.

Enjoy

Sarah

[ctznsmith]

My experiences on this are as follows. In 2014 I quit my job sold most of my possessions and went cycle touring (in 3 month chunks due to family weddings).

For the last 2 years I have alternated between cycle touring/bikepacking and working freelance (which has paid for me to live 'away' in B&B's). Having a lot of stuff just isn't possible.

The pro's:
More 'disposable' income than ever before.
No boss/set your own hours
Work to live
I've been all over Europe on my bike.

The con's:
Have spent a fair chunk of time living with my Parents.
I've probably got only two or three months of work left and then no plan.
No settled base/space to call your own can be wearing.
I still spend far too much money on bike parts/camping gear (although I try to lose/sell things to compensate for new things gained).

[mountainbaker]

Less is more. I've never had huge amounts of clutter, but since buying a very small house, we've cleared out a lot of crap. Clothes, DVDs, furniture, some bikes, lots of books etc.

When I see people driving on their summer hols with a caravan, or in a motorhome towing a smart car, and bikes, and loads of crap. I just think it's insane. All that junk, and it is junk, for what? I'm just as happy camping with my bike, I have less to worry about, more freedom, and I'm not confined to a horrible caravan park! It's even more ridiculous when you're in the US/Canada. In Banff I saw a 50' RV, towing a Dodge pickup, with bikes in the back, towing a trailer, with 2 jet-skis!!!

[whitestone]

I was brought up to view debt/credit as something to avoid and to save up if I wanted something badly. That way you'd appreciate it more when you finally got it. When I was at school I wanted a Hi-Fi set: did odd-jobs; saved pocket money; etc and saved up the £250 that it cost (this is in the mid 1970s). I still have that Hi-Fi, at today's prices it would cost £1900*. Similarly our kitchen table was originally my grandparents' (it probably went with their house) and it sat in a barn at my parents for twenty years until I got a house with a kitchen big enough to hold it.

The usage of my salary is more about me doing things rather than acquiring things.

As for reducing "stuff": a couple of years ago we went through all our clothes and got rid of all those items that we'd had for years and weren't likely to wear (or even fit) again. A couple of months later we went on a diet and both lost enough weight that we'd have fitted the clothes we sent off to charity I've now a cupboard full of clothes for the bigger me

* Note: comparing prices of consumer electronics and the like from that period with now is a bit awkward as production techniques and volume have changed significantly as have distribution costs.

[Trail-rat]

interesting sarah - forgive me for asking but was it a move you chose or a move that was forced upon via the divorce. I am at a crossroads at the moment.

I earn a decent wage working internationally in O&G

Its always been my plan to jack it in pre kids - and ive never spent close to all my wages in the last 7 years - always have saved a significant amount in various ways + significantly overpaid our mortgage + rarely buy new items if i want something its usually used and usually after careful consideration of need vs want. - I follow "mrmoneymoustache" philosophy to an extent although i believe he is very extreme in his ways - albe it successful.

Kids are on the cards soon and i need to start thinking about giving up this job. i dont like the job but it gives stability and the ability to save for the future + ability to see bits of the world and experiance cultures i would never have seen otherwise.

How ever i still cant get over the risk in giving up a well paying job....(which does also afford me significant time off each year despite it not being when i want the time off - its still more than a 9-5)

I need to make that jump as we believe a stable family is more important than money when bringing up kids - but obviously its a very double edged sword. (wifes also a teacher and being in an area with high transient workforce and high Fly in fly out dads - she sees it in her job alot where the remaining parent stuggles to cope and support the children)

Very deep for this time on a wednesday :D