terra nova moonlite?? worth the money or not

[Mike]

Hi guys i know some of u must have one, so im looking to buy one as they r lightweight. Question is are they worth the money and do they work well ( room for a winter down bag ) or is there better out there for the money? :?

[Mike]

Just came across the MSR AC bivy bag? Anyone used one of these looks good and has a midge net!!

[Anthony]

Moonlite is more of a good water resistant bivvy bag for use under a tarp, rather than a full weather protection shelter.

It's ace and works brilliantly at what its designed for.

Quite short though and a full 800g+fill winter bag is going to struggle in it.

Often found for £50 online.

[Bearbonesnorm]

IMO the Moonlite's too snug for using with a winter bag. There's a few other options I'd consider but it really depends what you're doing.

• Something to use all year under a tarp or shelter - Borah Gear. Loads of room, very light with midge net but not 100% waterproof.

• Something to use all year without a tarp - eVent bag from RAB. Some models have a midge net.

• Something to use all year without spending too much - AlpKit Hunka XL. No midge net though.

[johnnystorm]

Sorry to trample on your thread....

I've got a Thermarest Haven and an Xtherm, both in Large. Would the Hunka XL accommodate them both, and if it did would it get too damp and reduce the effectiveness of the down? Or would people put their mats on the ground and just themselves & the sleeping bag in the Hunka?

Cheers

[InspiredRamblings]

I've got a Hunka XL and fit my Exped Downmat UL 7 M in quite well. I used it with a Cumulus Quantum 350 downbag in September (not been out since!). The Cumulus isn't a proper winter bag (-6) but it all fitted fine, and the bag seemed to loft just fine. A little bit of condensed dampness inside the Hunka on a couple of nights but not too bad. I wouldn't put that mat directly on the ground for fear of puncture; though I guess the Haven / Xtherm may be different.

Incidentally, the down in the Exped makes such a difference to how warm I am, and its so thick it really evens out lumpy bits on the ground as well. Very comfy.

[Zippy]

A little bit of condensed dampness inside the Hunka on a couple of nights but not too bad.

Yeah, I get that too...

Trying to work out whether to experiment with a few things or whether that's just the norm on this bivi and a more breathable one would cure this...

[InspiredRamblings]

A little bit of condensed dampness inside the Hunka on a couple of nights but not too bad.

Yeah, I get that too...

Trying to work out whether to experiment with a few things or whether that's just the norm on this bivi and a more breathable one would cure this...

I figured it was just the norm for the bag which, given its cheapness, is a relative bargain. I did worry that it might be worse in the cold and damp though, and could be a bit of a pain in the wet when its not possible to lay the bag out to dry for ten minutes...

[Bearbonesnorm]

In all honesty any bivvy bag given the right conditions will end up with some condensation in it. I actually think the Hunka suffers less than some more (much more) expensive bags.

[Mike]

i had to use the cheap ex army bivvy I've got tues. it was really cold but i suprised that i had no moisture in it what so ever shame its so bulky n heavy....my only reason for wanting to spend more cash on one had the hunka but wasn't that impressed with it in the rain?

[Bearbonesnorm]

Terra Nova Discovery lite might be worth a look. Should be better in the rain than either a Moonlite or Hunka as it's fully sealable.

Out of interest, what was it your Hunka did or didn't do in the rain?

[johnnystorm]

Cheers for the input guys. :D

[Mike]

bag was soaked in the morning stuart, this was on the berwyns last yr.

[Chew]

the hunka but wasn't that impressed with it in the rain?

I've had this. Its not the bag its the conditions.
Because of the cold rain on the outside of the bag you'll get more condensation within the bag (think car windows on a rainy day). The rain means its harder for the bag to breathe, and the weight of the rain pushes the bivi down onto your sleeping bag, creating contact. The wet sleeping bag will be due to the increased condensation rather than rain soaking through.

Its just the design of any bivi bag (Hunka style, rather than very small tent) that means airflow is non existant, and the condensation is hard to clear. For me these types of Bivi bag are for when you think the chance of rain is slim, or in conjunction with a tarp if rain is more likely.

[restlessshawn]

I don't buy that Chew. I got really wet inside my hunka on the WRT far too much for condensation! I got shot of it after as there was no way I was ever gonna spend another night in it. I had a eally cheap less breathable gelert bag before that and never got wet.

[nobby]

i had to use the cheap ex army bivvy I've got tues. it was really cold but i suprised that i had no moisture in it what so ever shame its so bulky n heavy....my only reason for wanting to spend more cash on one had the hunka but wasn't that impressed with it in the rain?

You can get the weight and bulk down on an army bivi bag: http://www.backpacking-lite.co.uk/diy/m ... ghter.html

[Bearbonesnorm]

I've experienced some level of 'wetness' in every bivvy bag I've owned at some time or another. They've ranged in price from £30 - £200 but if conditions haven't been good, they've all produced some condensation.

Some observations:

* Fully enclosing yourself will make things worse.
* A smaller bivvy bag is often worse due to less breathable surface area.
* Pulling a drawstring hood tight makes things worse, as warm, damp air can't escape.
* A wet outer (due to rain) will reduce breathability.
* Putting a mat inside may (depending on whether the bag has a breathable base) make things worse.
* Being warm to the point of sweating will make things worse ... eating just before going to bed may increase the chances.
* Not having another cover (tarp) between you and the sky will make things worse.
* On a damp, still night with high humidity ... you'll get condensation.

[Bearbonesnorm]

If anyone is looking for a 'quality' bivvy bag and all that ^^^ hasn't put you off, I've just spotted this:

http://www.georgefisher.co.uk/bivis-she ... indigo.asp

RAB eVent Alpine, under 500g, packs pretty small, bathtub floor and sides so there's plenty of 'loft' room. Reduced to £90 from £165.

[adjustablewench]

another factor that hasnt been mentioned is we all produce different amounts of moisture. for mach and back pete and I shared a tent and his bag was very damp as he's always so hot when he sleeps. I felt warm but dont sweat as much as he does so my bag was dry - if we had both been in bivi bags im sure he would have had a real problem with condensation (hes going to love me for sharing this!)

[Zippy]

I was doing some in depth reading on the subject a while back (although I stopped before I worked a proper conclusion out for some reason...).

Anyway, it's all down to the due point, moving where it is and a lot of other factors, most of which have been mentioned here.

I also read about the use of a VBL (vapour barrier layer) where essentially you wear something non breathable on your skin - this stops any moisture escaping to the likes of your down bag and the bivi bag itself, but obviously it;s a bit clammy on your skin. But, as your body is pretty good at self regulating itself, whilst it may be a bit clammy to begin with, your body will sort itself out, and produce less moisture, but your down bag and bivi bag won't condense up and the thermal properties will still work.
This is a bit more important when sleping in freezing conditions as moisture will freeze in the down etc. and make them less effective.

I still have a bit more research and reading into the subject before I draw my own conclusions, but it's food for thought.

[adjustablewench]

waterproof close fitting base layer - sounds like latex pyjamas are going to be the next big thing for bivvying - like a whole new fetish in the making - and so very wrong!

[Zippy]

waterproof close fitting base layer - sounds like latex pyjamas are going to be the next big thing for bivvying - like a whole new fetish in the making - and so very wrong!

Think I shall avoid as much as possible and experiment with trying to move where the dew point is etc.

Also have Stu's hammock coming, which I'm hoping will be quite comfortable even if there is a weight penalty.

[nobby]

I think it says in the Book of the Bivvy that three factors needed for a breathable bivi to work are: a breeze blowing over it, hotter inside than out and more humid inside than out.
I think you would want to be very sure of a dry night before bivvying without a tarp otherwise it will wet out. Chris Bell of Highpath Engineering uses his TN Jupiter in light rain but puts it in an old Saunders flysheet for heavy rain. It's somewhere in here: http://www.highpath.net