HT550 2016 ITT starters

[whitestone]

I think Ian is commenting on the mindset that a SPOT/mobile phone/insurance makes you safe in whatever activity rather than the reality that the activity is actually no less risky but the potential consequences of an accident are lessened.

Then you've risk compensation to deal with: will someone push themselves further than they would otherwise since help is "just a button press away" if they have a SPOT or similar? This is Ian's "over extension of bike/mountain/survival ability" argument.

I'm somewhat ambivalent about SPOTs and similar devices: on the one hand for events like the HT550 (remember that? it's the subject of the thread ) it's one less worry for Alan. On the other hand for personal trips I quite like the "off the grid" experience even if it's just quite possibly an illusion. A SPOT wouldn't have been of use to the two people I knew who died of heart attacks: they wouldn't have survived if they had been in ICU at the time, that doesn't mean they aren't useful in other types of heart attack. There's some level of risk in everything we do and we aren't particularly good at understanding it: Some years ago I had a rock climbing accident, broke my wrist and dislocated my elbow. Most people regard climbing as high risk yet that was my first one in over thirty years of high standard climbing. My neighbour commented that a colleague of his tripped on the kerb/pavement, hit his head on a concrete waste bin and was killed. So which is higher risk? Should we mandate insurance and helmets for pedestrians to make them safe?

[ZeroDarkBivi]

Apologies for bringing this kind of back on topic, but I might also ride this course (perhaps minus the Northern Slog) during the second half of May. More likely a tour rather then TT, so happy to join up with anybody else with similar plans. My start date will be determined solely by the weather forecast; I want to enjoy this ride rather than endure it!

Anyway, back to Highland Emergency...

[Ian]

To paraphrase, you are say that anyone who has the right kit and skills will never need emergency medical support and will never have an accident that results in a serious medical situation.

That's not what I said, that's your interpretation
To qualify my comment a bit; with risk there are degrees of probability, the extreme ends of the probability curve being situations you describe as freak accidents. However, even at the extreme end, only a small % of those are totally incapacitating. Everything else should be manageable based on the skill set of the individual and/or with the gear they carry. It might be uncomfortable or take a long time, but I would [like to think I would] use the SPOT only as an utter last resort if I felt I had absolutely no other option.

As far as the HT is concerned; it's tough terrain, long days in the saddle, high fatigue on bike and body, even in favourable weather. Which is why there are qualifying criteria for the Group Start. I still maintain we need to keep an eye out for each other and be prepared to turn back up the trail, just to check someone is OK - like Aidan did, and not simply rely on the presence of a SPOT to get them out of trouble.

[Alpinum]

Some years ago I had a rock climbing accident, broke my wrist and dislocated my elbow. Most people regard climbing as high risk yet that was my first one in over thirty years of high standard climbing. My neighbour commented that a colleague of his tripped on the kerb/pavement, hit his head on a concrete waste bin and was killed. So which is higher risk? Should we mandate insurance and helmets for pedestrians to make them safe?

The rate is a very very different one. Statistics will tell you climbing is much riskier than walking on the pavement (as I too know from some sad personal events). Insurances will let you know too, they do a lot of maths.

We can never rule out risk so every one has to assess with how much risk he wants to live. The more one wants to eliminate risks, the more difficult it gets.

SPOT shouldn't change that point of view, just like a full face helmet instead of a half lid or a barryvox (instead of none) shouldn't interefere with your risk analysis. It simply shouldn't be part of the equation.

[fatbikephil]

Well folks, you should have been doing an ITT this week:- 23 degrees in Kinlochewe today and the same tomorow and Wednesday, getting cooler thereafter but dry until Friday. Good news for the group start as this should get everything dried out nicely, unlike the washout that last may was. The downside being that the midges will be breeding like wildfire

[Justchris]

The downside being that the midges will be breeding like wildfire

I chuckled at this....we need to get a 'like' button.

[Alpinum]

The downside being that the midges will be breeding like wildfire

4 gen SPOTs will have an anti midge/ticks button. I have a 2 gen one so I'll bring beans along instead... for the ticks I'll bring some fur for my bike to disguise it as a deer. Problem solved.

Will be fun

[Dave Barter]

The downside being that the midges will be breeding like wildfire

4 gen SPOTs will have an anti midge/ticks button. I have a 2 gen one so I'll bring beans along instead... for the ticks I'll bring some fur for my bike to disguise it as a deer. Problem solved.

Will be fun

That 4 get only works with a Smidge subscription. Basic gets ride of them every 5 minutes and the extreme will work at 2 minute intervals.

[KamelTrek]

Hi Everyone. Thank you all for sharing your views on my starting plans. I want to assure you that I value everyone's opinion and in no way want to come across as someone not respecting the group start.

I have amended my travel plans so I start on Sunday. Will be arriving in Tyndrum Saturday afternoon and will hit the trail as soon as I can on Sunday.

Some final thoughts on the sidebar conversations that started:
1. SPOT tracker. I always use it. My wife and kids want to know I'm OK even when I'm off the grid. No illusions of safety though or less risk.
2. Like the highway code demands, if someone is injured on the trail, bleeding/broken bone/concussion or anything where they cannot look after themselves, then I am staying with them. Period! I carry an emergency bivvy for myself or others.
3. When I started in the group last year, I honestly was not bothered by ITTers starting with us. I thought more people would be there as I am in 'the more the merrier' camp. So I also have to go with my personal experience when I'm making a judgement. I do agree, however, that the front runners probably don't want me in the way and trailing riders are more likely to want to chat and hang for a bit. Decidedly, most of us just wanted to complete the loop rather than win a race.
4. The bikepacking community is part of the attraction and I made some friends there last year. Forgive me if I was keen to make a few more this year.

Unfortunately, once I committed to that week six months ago, it's hard to change weeks with a two week's notice and would have never made it back this year.
I sincerely hope that my adjustments agree with everyone.

[bryanwadd]

That's not what I said, that's your interpretation
To qualify my comment a bit; with risk there are degrees of probability, the extreme ends of the probability curve being situations you describe as freak accidents. However, even at the extreme end, only a small % of those are totally incapacitating. Everything else should be manageable based on the skill set of the individual and/or with the gear they carry. It might be uncomfortable or take a long time, but I would [like to think I would] use the SPOT only as an utter last resort if I felt I had absolutely no other option.

As far as the HT is concerned; it's tough terrain, long days in the saddle, high fatigue on bike and body, even in favourable weather. Which is why there are qualifying criteria for the Group Start. I still maintain we need to keep an eye out for each other and be prepared to turn back up the trail, just to check someone is OK - like Aidan did, and not simply rely on the presence of a SPOT to get them out of trouble.

Thanks for the further explanation of your comment. I agree, a SPOT (or other emergency device, including a phone) should not be used as a crutch to over extend yourself. If you're going into wild and remote places then you have to be prepared to get yourself out again. The SPOT does have the HELP button too which can be used as you wish with a pre-arranged protocol between yourself and whoever you have chosen to contact.

As it happens, I have a SPOT Gen 2 for sale (having bought a Gen 3). PM me if anyone is interested.

[FLV]

I sincerely hope that my adjustments agree with everyone.

I think you've bent over backwards to be a considerate as possible.

I think its a bit out of order that some people think the group starters have more right to the trails and the facilities than other users.

[fatbikephil]

They're off!
Huw Oliver departed tyndrum at 8am - good luck!

[Justchris]

I have kept quiet on this whole thread, and for what its worth I think it is a great discussion, and I completely see the validity of most points raised.

I completely agree with points made about some people having no more rights to trails and facilities than others. Its great in Scotland we have the access rights we do.

However the Highland trail group start has a fairly strict criteria about who gets to go.
Let me just state that I have not made the criteria for participation.... yet.

The criteria for entry does a few things, but mainly it assures the organiser (Alan) you have the both fitness and backcountry skills necessary to do all right and maybe finish. The last thing he wants is three or four mountain rescue call outs, with a few helicopters putting the HT on the media's pages for the wrong reasons. Bear in mind the Tour Divide has already started running into problems at the Canadian Boarder, due to a mountain biker accident. And it is inevitable the HT will come across criticism in the future from hill walkers, land owners, mountain rescue, police or worse of all a doogooder politician.

During the time of the HT they are 'highland trailers' any other time just 'cyclists' doing the highland trail route. Kind of like the 'tour divider/racers' and the GDMBR cyclists. This is why numbers are kept fairly low, and there is a waiting list. So the less people on the trail route at the time or ahead of the group start the better imo.

As for facilities, I am not so sure, as I have not done the route. But I can see why some one would be pissed if they turned up at a hotel to find that it was full of mountain bikers, out doing 65% of the route as a recce for a group start in the future, or as an itt who started an hour after the group start 'race' as they didn't meet the criteria. (if someone comes first its a race).

I think that Kameltrek has absolutely done the correct thing, and has been very considerate, taking a little feed back from this forum, and starting when he now plans. Unfortunately for him he is the person to first broach the topic. But it is a very important subject, if we want the highland trail, cairngorm loop, capital trail etc, to continue the way they are run at the moment. And I do think someone, not sure who, needs to draw up a general consensus of when is and when is not acceptable to do a recce or itt of a route. Not just the HT but the other routes as well.

best of luck to all people cycling on the HT route this year, or any itt for that matter

thanks

chris

[Mariner]

I think that a simple addition to the rules would clarify things for ITT riders in that anyone submitting an ITT completion for approval that includes certain dates and locations will not be considered.
This is based on the assumption that anyone attempting an ITT is making a serious attempt otherwise they are trail riders out for a ride and nowt to do with HT.

[Howard]

I can tell that watching Huw Oliver on Trackleaders is going to be addictive.....http://trackleaders.com/highland16i.php?name=Huw_Oliver

He's going well so far. Wish I was out there too!

[boxelder]

He's just at the high point of the whole thing. Was snow there last year and I'm guessing there may be again.

He'll miss his pizza if he's not quick

[fatbikephil]

Didn't stop for breakfast at Cannich and he'll be pushing to get tea at Oykel Bridge! He was quick from Loch Ma stack to Contin and on the track of a thousand puddles to Orrin dam - I bet its bone dry at the moment!

[Howard]

....track of a thousand puddles to Orrin dam - I bet its bone dry at the moment!

Only been along there a couple of times but the description is perfect!

He's doing really well. As a matter of interest - are Oykel Bridge happy to take in completely soaking wet and muddy riders? And has anybody ever used them for breakfast?

[AlasdairMc]

He had a couple of stops in Contin, first at the petrol station and then at the stores. Will Oykel Bridge be doing meals or was that just for the HTR that they had the bar open?

[Nikk]

As a matter of interest - are Oykel Bridge happy to take in completely soaking wet and muddy riders? And has anybody ever used them for breakfast?

Yes and yes.

Called in there during my 2014 attempt at about 9:30am, soaked through and cold, and asking for food. They asked if I would mind waiting in their drying room as they were clearing breakfast. I nodded and they put me into this lovely warm room with all the fisherman's kit drying off. Was a slice of heaven at that point. Had a nice chat with one of said fishermen. I sorted myself out and got warm. Then they fed me breakfast in the bar and made me two substantial baguettes and sold me Irn Bru. 10/10 for welcoming hospitality.

[Nikk]

Just did the 1st 70 miles then a 30 mile road scoot to Ft Bill to do the last 45 miles this weekend.

Cracking weather all weekend. Blog post to come, but here is a pic of how rubbish it was.

Highland Trail 550 new begining section 2016 by Nik K, on Flickr

[fatbikephil]

Oykel bridge hotel did us proud last year - were quite unphased by a string of wet and muddy bikers coming in for tea and breakfast. they were on the trackleaders page and watching for people coming in - top service! Alistair - they serve bar food the rest of the year too plus there is the Achness hotel just before we camped last year.

Looks like Huw is going to get a bit damp in the coming days with Westerleys persisting for the rest of the week.

[slarge]

Oykel bridge hotel deserve a special mention as they really helped everyone out last year. Contin stores also...

Huw is doing great, just got to keep plugging at it....

[Howard]

Just did the 1st 70 miles then a 30 mile road scoot to Ft Bill to do the last 45 miles this weekend.
Cracking weather all weekend. Blog post to come, but here is a pic of how rubbish it was.

Sounds like your knee has recovered from the CL? That's good.

Thanks to all for the info about Oykel Bridge. Their website looks a bit posh!

[Howard]

Huw's now heading south!