Dynamo hub USB device - have your say!

[Mandicky]

Hi All,

I'm developing a device to work with dynamo hubs to give a USB output. I'm happy with the circuit and have tested it thoroughly - including BB200. So far so good.

The next stage is to package it and this is where I'd like the opinions of the forum members as you're the typical end-user.

1. Connection from dynamo to device. At the moment I have flying leads with automotive 'bullet' connectors. Although this doesn't look as neat as a plug-in connector it is field-serviceable and the connectors are available at any garage you may pass on your travels.

2. USB connector. I've sourced an IP67 rated (1m submerged for 30 minutes*) connector that comes with a screw-on cover. It is more expensive that a standard USB but I like the security it gives against unexpected drownings. Obviously anything plugged into the USB may suffer...

*Should just cover BB200 requirements!

3. Lights output. Is it desirable to have a switch on the device and an output suitable for connecting lights? The prototype doesn't have this. You simply unplug the USB device from the dynamo and plug the light in instead. I like to keep things simple - switches can break.

4. LED display. Do you need the reassurance that the USB is kicking out a supply? A small LED could be incorporated into the device to show it is working.

5. Shape. The prototype is a cylinder, approximately Ø25mm x 80mm long. I tuck this into a feed bag on the crossbar for easy access. The USB connector is at one end and the flying leads at the other.

If anyone would like to comment below I'd be grateful. Please try and stick to comments on the 5 points above

Thanks in advance,

Rich

[Dave42w]

Ok I'll bite.

1. Do you expect to provide dynamo connector to bullet connector (for the flying lead)? I think there are a number of different types of dynamo connector eg Schmidt are spade.

2. Sounds good. What is the supply like eg compared to Tout Terrain the Plug II+? Would you expect to power devices directly or via a battery?

3. If a removable device that you put on for big rides then unplug for lights sounds ok. For everyday transport and touring then permanently and securely fitted with switch (options either, both, neither) would be better.

4. Yes please

5. If permanent fitting then hiding in a tube like head tube is great. Otherwise, I think having both cables at same end is a bit easier.

6. Option of a battery would be good. One less thing to carry and better flexibility.

[composite]

1. Connection from dynamo to device. At the moment I have flying leads with automotive 'bullet' connectors. Although this doesn't look as neat as a plug-in connector it is field-serviceable and the connectors are available at any garage you may pass on your travels.

I don't really know what this means, got any pictures?

2. USB connector. I've sourced an IP67 rated (1m submerged for 30 minutes*) connector that comes with a screw-on cover. It is more expensive that a standard USB but I like the security it gives against unexpected drownings. Obviously anything plugged into the USB may suffer...

What's the point of the cover if it's not a stupid question? I mean if you don't have anything plugged into it why would you have it with you? If you mean when you have unplugged it and have you lights plugged in, then I'm not going to stop on the trail and screw a cover on, just not got to happen in my world.

3. Lights output. Is it desirable to have a switch on the device and an output suitable for connecting lights? The prototype doesn't have this. You simply unplug the USB device from the dynamo and plug the light in instead. I like to keep things simple - switches can break.

My set up means I unplug from the "device" and then plug into the light. I wouldn't want to be unplugging at the hub. My work flow is here http://www.composite-projects.co.uk/201 ... the-trail/

4. LED display. Do you need the reassurance that the USB is kicking out a supply? A small LED could be incorporated into the device to show it is working.

Nice touch but not required IMO.

5. Shape. The prototype is a cylinder, approximately Ø25mm x 80mm long. I tuck this into a feed bag on the crossbar for easy access. The USB connector is at one end and the flying leads at the other.

Don't care on the actual shape, just as long as it isn't massive.

[jameso]

Sounds good on all fronts. 25mm OD.. If you could make it approx 22mm to fit into a steerer it would be a real selling point for me. No need for a Plug style mount, can be secured well enough and cables can exit modified top caps and bungs.

[ianfitz]

Sounds good on all fronts. 25mm OD.. If you could make it approx 22mm to fit into a steerer it would be a real selling point for me. No need for a Plug style mount, can be secured well enough and cables can exit modified top caps and bungs.

This would nt work carbon steerers needing wedges rather than star nuts though.

[Mandicky]

Thanks for all the replies folks. I'll get some photos up in the next few days to answer some of the comments.

The cover for the USB connector is attached by a (removable) lanyard. It is useful as it stops the connector becoming contaminated when it isn't being used. The prototype sat in my food bag during BB200 and it could easily have ended up with a Jelly Baby squashed up it. The USB connector was never designed to be out of the office and it easy to get debris in it which stops the halves mating fully.

I did think about incorporating a battery into the device to act as a buffer but all batteries have a 'life'. The other problem would be deciding on the spec: 2000mAh or 13000mAh, single or twin USB output...... I think it is better to keep the battery as a separate item.

I'll have a look and see if it could fit in Ø22mm. There is one component that, from memory, is probably too big though.

Cheers,

Rich

[slarge]

I would want a device the is easy to package on the bike, and even better if it had a dual function, such as a tube that could be attached to the bars to act as a light mount, GPS mount or something like that. A switch and LEDs would be good as I like to see that things are working (or if they aren't, a quick clue as to what isn't working).
Sufficient current capability to charge an iPhone, or even better, enough for 2 USBs.

And a built in battery, or at least a modular design so a battery could easily plug in.

And much cheapness!

[Zippy]

I wish to caveat that I don't have actual experience of using dynamo + accessories, but I'm answering this as if I were, and can see me having one within the next 12 months.

1. Connection from dynamo to device. At the moment I have flying leads with automotive 'bullet' connectors. Although this doesn't look as neat as a plug-in connector it is field-serviceable and the connectors are available at any garage you may pass on your travels.

Fine, function over form and like you say dead simple when on the move.

2. USB connector. I've sourced an IP67 rated (1m submerged for 30 minutes*) connector that comes with a screw-on cover. It is more expensive that a standard USB but I like the security it gives against unexpected drownings. Obviously anything plugged into the USB may suffer...

I like very much!

3. Lights output. Is it desirable to have a switch on the device and an output suitable for connecting lights? The prototype doesn't have this. You simply unplug the USB device from the dynamo and plug the light in instead. I like to keep things simple - switches can break.

Yes I would quite like a switch between the two, or an option or something. Whilst switches can break...could there be a failsafe method (e.g. if switch breaks, it goes to output 1 only.)?

4. LED display. Do you need the reassurance that the USB is kicking out a supply? A small LED could be incorporated into the device to show it is working.

Yes please, I like the ability when tired to at a glance see if the reason my device isn't charging is because it's not plugged in properly, or the device rather than the dynamo adapter - gives me one less thing to think about when fault finding.

5. Shape. The prototype is a cylinder, approximately Ø25mm x 80mm long. I tuck this into a feed bag on the crossbar for easy access. The USB connector is at one end and the flying leads at the other.

Like others have said, being able to bung it in a steerer tube would be handy, but the cylinder shape certainly good.

Another note - more a rambling thought. When packaging this - having it user serviceable (i.e. so I can take it apart) would be a bonus for 2 reasons, 1. fault finding the internals, 2. if a nerd like me started 3D printing, I could transfer the internals to my own packaging.
That said, I can see this causing problems and meaning it would be more prone to being open to the elements etc.

Very interested overall, please keep us informed.

[Taylor]

Liking slarge's idea on incorporating it into a light/gps mount.
Something akin to this, Revo jack into female at one end-usb exits the other end.


http://www.barflybike.com/bar-fly-universal-mount/

[Dave42w]

Liking slarge's idea on incorporating it into a light/gps mount.
Something akin to this, Revo jack into female at one end-usb exits the other end.


http://www.barflybike.com/bar-fly-universal-mount/

That looks like a great idea! Maybe a matching battery so they could be positioned one each side of the stem and clip to each other.

[composite]

The cover for the USB connector is attached by a (removable) lanyard. It is useful as it stops the connector becoming contaminated when it isn't being used. The prototype sat in my food bag during BB200 and it could easily have ended up with a Jelly Baby squashed up it. The USB connector was never designed to be out of the office and it easy to get debris in it which stops the halves mating fully.

Thanks for clarifying. In my setup even when the dynamo wire is not plugged into the sinewave there is always a cable plugged into its USB output so it needing to be covered is never an issue.

I did think about incorporating a battery into the device to act as a buffer but all batteries have a 'life'. The other problem would be deciding on the spec: 2000mAh or 13000mAh, single or twin USB output...... I think it is better to keep the battery as a separate item.

This is exactly why I stayed away from the convertors with built in battery. Wedging 2 devices together that have different life spans has never been a good idea.

I to like Steve's idea of it being built in to a mount. Might that leave it more open to the elements compared to putting it in the steerer or a top tube bag?

[numplumz]

Having used a Dynamo and home built charger and a Kemo on several backpacking and road tours for two years, here's my thoughts;

1. Not a fan of bullet connectors they corrode to much for me, have had many faults at work and on motorbikes because of them. Sealed waterproof pre-made connectors are cheap on ebay. If you put a male on the input to the USB unit and a female on the output to the light using the same connectors this also gives you the option to remove the USB unit, and re-plug in to create a straight through connection to the light. This can be usefull if you use your light for commuting and have no need for the USB unit to be there for long periods in winter, or if the USB unit fails on a long trip you can bypass it quickly. As for bullets being an easy repair in the field, so is twisting wires together and tape.

2. Essential in my book, as you say USB connectors short out easily when wet, I have killed devices because of this.

3. A lights output and switch essential in my book. If you use a Revo you have to unplug to switch off the light which is annoying when you use it every day. The kemo is very good for this with its Light to USB switch option. One invaluable use for the switch I found was when touring in France, Charging a Phone while road riding into a dark tunnel, a quick flick of the switch and I had full lights to continue at speed, and then a quick switch back, no faffing. (don't forget your market is also Audax riders and long distance racers like Transcontinental)

4. A LED has proved very usefull on the Kemo, it proves the hub is Ok if you suspect a wiring problem, and on the Kemo it goes out when the over voltage kicks in at speed to prove you have protection.

5. Not bothered about the shape, if you add switches and extra leads they will dictate the shape I guess. Your original sounds simple if charging is your only requirement.
Personally if your not riding at night or carrying lights you can find enough charging options while you are stopped normally. a small flat square waterproof device cable tied to the head-tube suits me fine.

Good luck with your device. What charging output current is it capable of?
Get it out before the next Transcontinental race and you could sell a few, there were several tales of the head-tube plug devices being killed by the weather last year and endless questions about how to charge devices from riders.

[Tom]

Somebody else on this forum mentioned the Forumslader project some time ago and I think it is possibly the most advanced dynamo regulator that's for sale at the moment. It's available in two packages and can either be inserted in your steerer or if the steerer isn't long enough then it can be mounted externally. It looks crude but then it isn't being produced on a commercial scale. I think the reason is due to patents. The circuitry is extremely advanced and even with my little knowledge can appreciate it's complexity. I think the current output is higher than the Sinewave and....get this...it has a bluetooth module (at additional cost) that connects to your android phone and outputs the speed, power output and some other things to a free app that has been written specifically for the bike charger.



This switchable USB top cap was made by another guy and I don't think it's available with the Forumslader

[DoctorRad]

2. USB connector. I've sourced an IP67 rated (1m submerged for 30 minutes*) connector that comes with a screw-on cover. It is more expensive that a standard USB but I like the security it gives against unexpected drownings. Obviously anything plugged into the USB may suffer...

Won't a properly waterproof connection require IP67 socket and plug? Have you sourced waterproof USB leads for device charging? How would you waterproof the plug/socket at the device end?

My solution for a cache battery set-up has been to keep all connections inside water/splashproof cases.

[jameso]

Sounds good on all fronts. 25mm OD.. If you could make it approx 22mm to fit into a steerer it would be a real selling point for me. No need for a Plug style mount, can be secured well enough and cables can exit modified top caps and bungs.

This would nt work carbon steerers needing wedges rather than star nuts though.

Sorry, I meant that rather than the Plug being the top cap, a bung/wedge can work in any steerer and can be slotted to allow a cable to pass through so the USB unit could sit below the bung. My USB-Werk cable goes from hub though the steerer in this way, exits through a spacer with a hole in it (an idea borrowed from Tom's Israel HLC set up). External mounted USB unit is fine though, rare to be riding w/o a bag of some sort.

[Tom]

I don't think having a usb connection is the be all and end all. I'm happy with this set up which is designed to have an unregulated feed to the Revo and a feed to the regulator (an e-werk in my case) and then on to the device that needs charging.

100% waterproof so I don't need gold plated connections..

[Zippy]

Liking slarge's idea on incorporating it into a light/gps mount.
Something akin to this, Revo jack into female at one end-usb exits the other end.


http://www.barflybike.com/bar-fly-universal-mount/

That's a good idea too. Something like this mount

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00LN0PTU2/ ... sub0BHZ0BJ

Allows you to convert a round packaged USB device to be a bar adaptor.

[ianfitz]

Sounds good on all fronts. 25mm OD.. If you could make it approx 22mm to fit into a steerer it would be a real selling point for me. No need for a Plug style mount, can be secured well enough and cables can exit modified top caps and bungs.

This would nt work carbon steerers needing wedges rather than star nuts though.

Sorry, I meant that rather than the Plug being the top cap, a bung/wedge can work in any steerer and can be slotted to allow a cable to pass through so the USB unit could sit below the bung. My USB-Werk cable goes from hub though the steerer in this way, exits through a spacer with a hole in it (an idea borrowed from Tom's Israel HLC set up). External mounted USB unit is fine though, rare to be riding w/o a bag of some sort.

I can see how that would work. But I didn't explain that as well as a carbon steerer there is no 'hole at the base so wires would need to be routed in and out of the top cap.

I'd guess that with this type if fork it may be more trouble than its worth.

[Tom]

Zippy, this fits in to those mounts perfectly. Use some see through heat shrink and not only would it be water tight but you can see the light. They have a switch which you need to press and it supports pass through charging too. You'd still need a regulator between the dynamo and the Anker battery though.

James, I tried sizing my e-werk to fit in the steerer using a dremel. I wasn't happy with the original e-werk case due to the dangly wires as I see them as a weak point. I couldn't get it to fit as the coil is too high unfortunately. I'm modifying the case so the connectors don't hang out on the end of the cables and whilst I'm at it I'll epoxy the circuit board to prevent corrosion from condensation.



To be honest I really want the Forumslader but with the batteries it's too long for my steerer but will certainly be something I'll get for a road bike I'm planning on building early next year.

[jameso]

But I didn't explain that as well as a carbon steerer there is no 'hole at the base so wires would need to be routed in and out of the top cap.

I'd guess that with this type if fork it may be more trouble than its worth.

of course .. I was only thinking of the OD/ID differences and bung types.

[Mandicky]

2. USB connector. I've sourced an IP67 rated (1m submerged for 30 minutes*) connector that comes with a screw-on cover. It is more expensive that a standard USB but I like the security it gives against unexpected drownings. Obviously anything plugged into the USB may suffer...

Won't a properly waterproof connection require IP67 socket and plug? Have you sourced waterproof USB leads for device charging? How would you waterproof the plug/socket at the device end?

My solution for a cache battery set-up has been to keep all connections inside water/splashproof cases.

The IP67 connector is just to ensure the integrity of the device. If it happened to get dropped in a puddle or the bike dunked during a river crossing the device would survive. Anything plugged into it or stored in the same place would need to be protected separately.

[DoctorRad]

The IP67 connector is just to ensure the integrity of the device. If it happened to get dropped in a puddle or the bike dunked during a river crossing the device would survive. Anything plugged into it or stored in the same place would need to be protected separately.

I would have thought a gold plated connector and judicious use of potting compound to prevent water ingress at the rear (and over the rest of the electronics to protect them) would be a lot cheaper than an IP67 USB socket? That's what Sinewave do with the Revolution from what I've seen.

Not a fan of bullet connectors they corrode to much for me, have had many faults at work and on motorbikes because of them. Sealed waterproof pre-made connectors are cheap on ebay.

Again, Sinewave have a small and neat solution with their gold plated quick-release connectors. I've used waterproof connectors from eBay similar to these:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/221567556443

...and while they work very well, they're bulkier than you'd imagine, considerably more so than say Tamiya connectors. The latter are actually reasonably waterproof, but not massively reliable once they corrode and when subject to vibration. This would appear to be a cheap UK source for the gold plated connectors, and would put things in keeping with an existing 'standard'.

[ianfitz]

But I didn't explain that as well as a carbon steerer there is no 'hole at the base so wires would need to be routed in and out of the top cap.

I'd guess that with this type if fork it may be more trouble than its worth.

of course .. I was only thinking of the OD/ID differences and bung types.

Not a problem :) I think it maybe highlights the need for a system to be modular. People needs and bike setups are so varied that I honestly can't see one system working for every one.

I'd love to use the wasted space in my fork steerer but probably not viable. I currently use a kemo 172n to charge a regular USB (and my iPhone which runs memory map) I love the switch! Means I can flick the lights on for 10 seconds every few minutes which on road sections means I know there's enough coming out of them to be seen. Then go back to charging phone (or sometimes anker battery)

I use jones loop bars so don't need an extension bracket. But have used one in the past with flats. Hmmm. There a set of on one OG's in the kit room...