Rigs of the 2024....TOR Divide

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thesloth
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Re: Rigs of the 2024....TOR Divide

Post by thesloth »

Very enjoyable weekend!
The whole area was pretty much new to me, so every climb, descent & view was a treat.
Very busy with work/life so I'd barely checked the route before starting. Approaching it with a "what will be will be" attitude which has always served me well in the past. As always, the best info comes from chatting with the local riders enroute.
I really liked how the two loops were completely different: An MTB course on the first loop and a gravel course on the second. parkysouthlondon came up with "the first loop was 'orrible, the second was arable".
'orrible it certainly wasn't. The star attraction was the sunshine. After months of never-ending rain this felt like a exotic trip to southern Italy (pizza's at the finish - not a freezer->microwave job. A artisan crafted masterpiece from a pizza oven!).

It was interesting to see the clear division between mountain bikes and gravel bikes on the first loop. I was on a hardtail with dropper and 2.6" shoes. I yoyoed back and forth with guys on gravel bikes. They would take the road climbs and I'd sail past them on the descents.
Wasn't easier just on the obvious rocky steep stuff. There were a few long runs with golf ball to tennis ball sized nodules. Very quick and relaxing on my horse, but the gravel bikes were having to take it very slow.

First time I've really used a dropper post in anger as well. I bought one years ago because all the cool kids had them, but didn't find much use for it on my smooth Hampshire hills. On that first loop I hammered that remote.

The figure of eight route took us back to the campsite. It felt a bit like cheating, but I used the opportunity to change all my kit, have a sponge bath and a short nap in the sun.
parkysouthlondon rolled up just as I was getting ready to depart on the second loop, so we headed off into the evening together. Great sunset before dropping into Hathersage for a curry for dinner.

National Trust rangers were patrolling the hills up above Hathersage with search lights. They stopped us for a chat. Was told that they were very happy for us to be spending the night out, but gave a long precautionary lecture about not having a fire (rightly so).
At around midnight we bedded down in the woods just below Cubar Edge. At 2am there was a persistent drone buzzing overhead. I assumed that this was the NT looking for fire starters??

Sunrise up on Cubar Edge. Had the whole place to ourselves ...with the exception of two other TD riders we spotted having a lie in.
Day two was fairly pedestrian with a fair bit on the Pennine Bridleway.

Good to read thenorthwind's plastic free effort. I normally carry enough high calorie fatty/protein stuff to survive unassisted (cheese, sausages, nuts, etc). But when I'm tired and I spot a supermarket old habits die hard.
I like the idea of being completely self sufficient, but that then is a odds with giving some ££ to the local businesses.

How it looked in the sun:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/9rKbe3ZmY5rsL71D9

Kudos to Valerio or organising. Put a lot of effort in and it clearly showed.
Maybe for 2025 reverse the route and don't bring people back to the campsite for the second loop? :YMDEVIL:
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Bearlegged
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Re: Rigs of the 2024....TOR Divide

Post by Bearlegged »

thesloth wrote: Wed May 22, 2024 10:02 amAt 2am there was a persistent drone buzzing overhead. I assumed that this was the NT looking for fire starters??
Probably my mate Tomo.
https://www.instagram.com/p/C6nuvRENxbJ ... mg_index=1
Pmccee
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Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2023 5:54 pm

Re: Rigs of the 2024....TOR Divide

Post by Pmccee »

Great write up Dave and lovely to meet & ride with you!
Managed to take a picture of me at the only time I was off my bike...honest.
Valerio
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Re: Rigs of the 2024....TOR Divide

Post by Valerio »

Bearlegged wrote: Wed May 22, 2024 10:10 am
thesloth wrote: Wed May 22, 2024 10:02 amAt 2am there was a persistent drone buzzing overhead. I assumed that this was the NT looking for fire starters??
Probably my mate Tomo.
https://www.instagram.com/p/C6nuvRENxbJ ... mg_index=1
So the few times I bivvied there during recces it was a drone and not some giant mosquito waking me up??!!!!! I honestly thought I was going mad.
Not a fluffy gravel rider.
Organiser of the Tor Divide
https://tordivide.co.uk
Valerio
Posts: 102
Joined: Tue Jan 18, 2022 5:03 pm

Re: Rigs of the 2024....TOR Divide

Post by Valerio »

thesloth wrote: Wed May 22, 2024 10:02 am Very enjoyable weekend!
The whole area was pretty much new to me, so every climb, descent & view was a treat.
Very busy with work/life so I'd barely checked the route before starting. Approaching it with a "what will be will be" attitude which has always served me well in the past. As always, the best info comes from chatting with the local riders enroute.
I really liked how the two loops were completely different: An MTB course on the first loop and a gravel course on the second. parkysouthlondon came up with "the first loop was 'orrible, the second was arable".
'orrible it certainly wasn't. The star attraction was the sunshine. After months of never-ending rain this felt like a exotic trip to southern Italy (pizza's at the finish - not a freezer->microwave job. A artisan crafted masterpiece from a pizza oven!).

It was interesting to see the clear division between mountain bikes and gravel bikes on the first loop. I was on a hardtail with dropper and 2.6" shoes. I yoyoed back and forth with guys on gravel bikes. They would take the road climbs and I'd sail past them on the descents.
Wasn't easier just on the obvious rocky steep stuff. There were a few long runs with golf ball to tennis ball sized nodules. Very quick and relaxing on my horse, but the gravel bikes were having to take it very slow.

First time I've really used a dropper post in anger as well. I bought one years ago because all the cool kids had them, but didn't find much use for it on my smooth Hampshire hills. On that first loop I hammered that remote.

The figure of eight route took us back to the campsite. It felt a bit like cheating, but I used the opportunity to change all my kit, have a sponge bath and a short nap in the sun.
parkysouthlondon rolled up just as I was getting ready to depart on the second loop, so we headed off into the evening together. Great sunset before dropping into Hathersage for a curry for dinner.

National Trust rangers were patrolling the hills up above Hathersage with search lights. They stopped us for a chat. Was told that they were very happy for us to be spending the night out, but gave a long precautionary lecture about not having a fire (rightly so).
At around midnight we bedded down in the woods just below Cubar Edge. At 2am there was a persistent drone buzzing overhead. I assumed that this was the NT looking for fire starters??

Sunrise up on Cubar Edge. Had the whole place to ourselves ...with the exception of two other TD riders we spotted having a lie in.
Day two was fairly pedestrian with a fair bit on the Pennine Bridleway.

Good to read thenorthwind's plastic free effort. I normally carry enough high calorie fatty/protein stuff to survive unassisted (cheese, sausages, nuts, etc). But when I'm tired and I spot a supermarket old habits die hard.
I like the idea of being completely self sufficient, but that then is a odds with giving some ££ to the local businesses.

How it looked in the sun:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/9rKbe3ZmY5rsL71D9

Kudos to Valerio or organising. Put a lot of effort in and it clearly showed.
Maybe for 2025 reverse the route and don't bring people back to the campsite for the second loop? :YMDEVIL:
Thanks for the feedback Matthew!!!! It was a pleasure meeting you.

I think some people might have underestimate the use of the word "challenge" on the event website.
So far I only had 1 complaint out of 150ppl about the lack of climbs and downhill....and I don't expect to receive more of them!

I don't think anyone wants to climb Jacobs Ladder but I'll keep the suggestion in mind haha
Not a fluffy gravel rider.
Organiser of the Tor Divide
https://tordivide.co.uk
benconnolli
Posts: 294
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Re: Rigs of the 2024....TOR Divide

Post by benconnolli »

Summary of attitude
I was planning on treating this like “not a race” and being as efficient as possible. While not being the first tough ride I was doing, it was the first tough event, and looking back there are several easy gains to be had in that shift from a touring attitude to race(even though this was not a race) attitude.

The overarching theme of this ride was satisfying compromises, so that is how I'm splitting up my report. As usual, I write this mainly for my own benefit, but then share them as collective learning can be good.

Bike compromises. I generally try to avoid extensive kit chat, on the grounds of it feeding this capitalist machine. However, bikes are fundamentally different. Each point is a compromise. There was certainly no ideal bike for this ride. I believe this is true for anything outside of the controlled environment of a velodrome or maybe a bike park? Tyres swap grip for rolling resistance and weight, suspension trades fun and control on descents for power transfer and weight, gravel bikes offer up more aero body position at the expense of downhill control and comfort. I decided on a 2.4” front, 2.3” rear,29” rigid mountain bike. Now knowing the terrain, I would probably pick out a suspension fork and a slightly faster rolling while still wide front tyre, but I was pretty spot on with what I had.

Comfort compromises. On reflection, comfort was where I was furthest off with my compromises. Despite not sleeping, I took a comprehensive shelter, cushy inflatable mat, and layers that would keep me at a comfortable temperature on a late autumn evening, despite riding on a warm summer day. I did not use any item in my seat pack, or any clothes. Could have safely traversed the terrain with simply tools, food, and emergency layers/bivi. My bike fitted well, and was adjusted to my body. Getting out of the saddle frequently, and a splash wash part way, kept my contact points fine. I did make the rogue pick of flat shoes rather than spds. Undoubtedly less efficient, but simpler and more reliable for the extensive hike-a-bike.

Resupply compromises. Feel like I have enough experience outdoors and body awareness for this to be fine. I occasionally had empty bottles but, thanks to the well planned and detailed route description by Valerio, I was always aware of when the next option was. If I wanted to be faster, I would have needed more urgency at the pub stops, but this was not a race after all.

Plastic compromises. I feel well trained at this. Have spent a month at home doing this completely, then tailing off into reasonably low levels. Going plastic free for an ultra does feel performative to an extent, but I decided that was sort of the point. The net plastic from worst ultra racer to best really is a drop in the ocean, however, it starts conversations. I am raising awareness. The greatest impact on the planet that most individuals can have is their impact over others. Me showing that it is possible to be plastic free when time and energy are such an obvious restriction opens up the possibility of others having a go. It is not about being perfect, simply doing your best on a given day, and learning to do better.
benconnolli
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Re: Rigs of the 2024....TOR Divide

Post by benconnolli »

Valerio wrote: Wed May 22, 2024 4:12 pm
I don't think anyone wants to climb Jacobs Ladder but I'll keep the suggestion in mind haha
WRONG! I had a blast pushing up that twisty path, just the right side of hard for me.
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thenorthwind
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Re: Rigs of the 2024....TOR Divide

Post by thenorthwind »

Cheers Tim.
Dave Barter wrote: Tue May 21, 2024 9:26 pm Well done gents. I’m the same on plastic bottles. It makes me laugh that people somehow trust the content beyond taps knowing how corporations operate… and I live in Brixham
lol
:lol: Thanks Dave. Talking of... when you see reports on the news about water supply problems and bottled water being handed out by the pallet load, it makes worrying about a couple of plastic bottles on a bike ride look a bit silly. Bonkers that a water company with access to tankers and bowsers and pumps and stuff can't think of a better way of distributing water than in 500ml bottles ~X(
Valerio wrote: Tue May 21, 2024 10:11 pm Apologies if I didn't manage to spend more time chatting with you guys, there was so much going on and I was trying to stay on top of it all....with mixed results!
A lot of lessons learnt for me for sure.
All appeared calm from where I was... must have been like the proverbial swan :cool:
Valerio wrote: Tue May 21, 2024 10:11 pm It is a very good point about the styrkr bars in plastic wrappers....not the best match for an event that tries to be sustainable and something I felt quite conflicted about.
Unfortunately the few brands that make nutrition in compostable wrapping had no interest in the event. The only one that did, went bust, and then an opportunity with Styrkr came about.
Totally, I get that sponsors are needed to make an event viable, and sometimes you have to compromise - I hope that didn't sound like a complaint before BTW! One of the things that convinced me to put an entry in in the first place was your "money where your mouth is" approach to making it a sustainable event. Not just the plastic-free, but encouraging public transport and donating to the local trail group. It's easy enough to say "please get the train" but a different matter to offer hard cash as an incentive.

Talking of transport, and to get me down from my environmental high horse (laid off the Snickers for 24 hours and thinks he's the bloody second coming... :roll: ), I should point out I drove, on my own, instead of getting the train, which is probably far worse. But the train was going to be expensive, complicated, and unreliable, so I didn't. There's a whole other thread for those rants though.
benconnolli wrote: Wed May 22, 2024 12:42 am Agree with pretty much what Dave said re the plastic, one additional point I would add is that my reusable coffee cup allowed me to get a takeaway brew to sup while riding along, cafés were not located right by technical terrain so not as sketchy as it sounds? 2hr 21 not moving which I am pleased with but looking at trimming.
Good point... I packed my camping mug in my hip pack instead of inside my bigger pot, buried in my seat pack with my stove inside it. Unusually for me I resisted all coffee temptations :o But the option was there.
benconnolli wrote: Wed May 22, 2024 4:56 pm Plastic compromises. I feel well trained at this. Have spent a month at home doing this completely, then tailing off into reasonably low levels. Going plastic free for an ultra does feel performative to an extent, but I decided that was sort of the point. The net plastic from worst ultra racer to best really is a drop in the ocean, however, it starts conversations. I am raising awareness. The greatest impact on the planet that most individuals can have is their impact over others. Me showing that it is possible to be plastic free when time and energy are such an obvious restriction opens up the possibility of others having a go. It is not about being perfect, simply doing your best on a given day, and learning to do better.
Really could not sum it up any better than this :-bd
benconnolli wrote: Wed May 22, 2024 12:42 am I did some practice "smash and grabs" in local shops to get my eye in the week leading up to the event
Love the dedication! I hope you got out of bed in the middle of the night to do it, to properly recreate the conditions!
benconnolli wrote: Wed May 22, 2024 12:42 am To turn these biscuits into crumble, carry them across the Northern loop of the Tor Divide on a rigid bike.
:lol: :lol:

Nice write up and pics thesloth!
Pmccee wrote: Wed May 22, 2024 10:29 am Great write up Dave and lovely to meet & ride with you!
Managed to take a picture of me at the only time I was off my bike...honest.
Cheers Paul, great riding with you. Give us a shout if you're ever up this way or fancy company on another ride.
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sean_iow
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Re: Rigs of the 2024....TOR Divide

Post by sean_iow »

thenorthwind wrote: Wed May 22, 2024 9:42 pm :lol: Thanks Dave. Talking of... when you see reports on the news about water supply problems and bottled water being handed out by the pallet load, it makes worrying about a couple of plastic bottles on a bike ride look a bit silly. Bonkers that a water company with access to tankers and bowsers and pumps and stuff can't think of a better way of distributing water than in 500ml bottles ~X(
Water companies do have tankers and bowsers. The tankers are no use for this, they don't have tap on the back to fill up your mug. They do normally have bowsers but they fill them up from the mains.... the same mains they're saying not to drink. Unless you know the exact source and spread of the issue how would you know where to fill the bowsers.

But mainly the public have no way to carry water home. Unless you're a bikepacker how many people have water carriers lying about for the incredibly rare event the mains is off?
Adventure without risk is Disneyland - Bikemonger
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faustus
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Re: Rigs of the 2024....TOR Divide

Post by faustus »

Just adding to what Sean said on tankers etc....They are available, and I know some companies have ones available with taps for no water situations. But there's a few problems:

- Carrying the water back home - has to be in manageable sizes.
- filling up containers from tankers and bowsers would take an age and compound problems, think of pictures of queues at stand pipes in '76!
- lesser issue, but there's likely a hygiene issue with people bringing containers from home
- tankers need to be food grade but only used for water, which are not as readily available for this duty as you'd need a fleet that is redundant most of the time, costing lots.
- agree that truck loads of plastic bottles are not great, but it's an effective and hygienic way of getting portions of water to lots of people to carry away quickly, and to also deliver to vulnerable customers.
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sean_iow
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Re: Rigs of the 2024....TOR Divide

Post by sean_iow »

I would add I hate water in plastic bottles as much as anyone, maybe more.

I once had an long argument in a cafe at the inshore lifeboat when they refused to fill my bottle and said they sold bottles of water instead. As the queue behind me grew I pointed out that I wasn't going to pay £2 for half a litre of water in a plastic bottle that had come here by lorry. If only there was someway to get water to people without all that single-use plastic, lorries with diesel fumes and for us a ferry. Oh hang on, it comes out of the tap at 1000 litres for less than a pound.

I even offered to pay for my fill, it wasn't I wanted free water I just didn't want inferior water in a plastic bottle I was immediately going to throw away.

The lady behind the counter gave in and filled my bottles. I'm sure there was a collective noise from the queue which I think was approval for my moral stand, but might have been because they were now getting nearer to buying an ice cream. I put a £1 in the collection pot, thanked them for their help and left, probably to the relief of all there :lol:
Adventure without risk is Disneyland - Bikemonger
Valerio
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Re: Rigs of the 2024....TOR Divide

Post by Valerio »

Ben and Dave,

You are officially the only plastic-free finishers of the Tor Divide.
You are also the first plastic free finishers on each route.

Well done both, I've refunded your entries in full.

Not that it matters, but it's also great to see that you're amongst the fastest finishers proving that plastic-free & fast is possible.
Ben you've only finished behind Luke who has plenty of local knowledge and put in an insane performance (and used plenty of plastic).
Dave you're in the top 20 out of 43 finishers and 90+ starters, and very close to the pointy end.

Like Ben said, it's not about saving a few plastic wrappers. I hope people were not put off by the challenge thinking they should use ZERO plastic.
For me it's just about doing the best one can.
I've done a few long rides where I didn't aim for a plastic-free ride (i.e. I set off with plenty of bars in wrappers) but I took 100% of the rubbish produced home with me. The results were quite shocking.
If one starts to think about that then, hopefully, starts thinking about the coffee or drinks they take while away from home. The food they buy, etc etc.

I was going to ask you for some feedback and a recap of your experience to publish it on the event website, but what you've already written here is perfect :-bd I'm going to use bits of text you've written and photos, I hope you don't mind.
Not a fluffy gravel rider.
Organiser of the Tor Divide
https://tordivide.co.uk
Valerio
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Re: Rigs of the 2024....TOR Divide

Post by Valerio »

benconnolli wrote: Wed May 22, 2024 4:57 pm
Valerio wrote: Wed May 22, 2024 4:12 pm
I don't think anyone wants to climb Jacobs Ladder but I'll keep the suggestion in mind haha
WRONG! I had a blast pushing up that twisty path, just the right side of hard for me.
I meant no one - in the right mind - wants to climb up Jacobs Ladder (i.e. in reverse of what you've done) especially on a loaded bike, which I think it's what Matthew was suggesting :lol:

I love riding up Kinder Scout and while I always have to put my foot down here and there, I find it a great challenge. It is definitely fully rideable, at least on fresh legs and with better skills than mine.
The descent requires some confidence and willing to commit, worst case scenario is a 800m walk next to the bike.
I'll have to think about providing an easier alternative in the future (there aren't any easy ones) as some riders did that section at 3am and it would have been a very different kettle of fish in bad weather.
Not a fluffy gravel rider.
Organiser of the Tor Divide
https://tordivide.co.uk
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thenorthwind
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Re: Rigs of the 2024....TOR Divide

Post by thenorthwind »

Thanks very much Valerio... I'd love to say I'll do something positive with it, but I've already spent it on new drivertrain bits to replace the ones I wore out in the first few sloppy, peaty, gritty hours of Saturday :oops:

Very happy for you to use the text and pictures above.
sean_iow wrote: Thu May 23, 2024 10:13 am I even offered to pay for my fill, it wasn't I wanted free water I just didn't want inferior water in a plastic bottle I was immediately going to throw away.
I've never actually had to do it, but I always think that if someone refuses to fill a bottle on the basis that I should buy a bottle, I'd offer the cost of the new bottle in return for the fill.
sean_iow wrote: Thu May 23, 2024 8:26 am The tankers are no use for this, they don't have tap on the back to fill up your mug
No, but that's hardly an insurmountable engineering challenge is it?
sean_iow wrote: Thu May 23, 2024 8:26 am Unless you know the exact source and spread of the issue how would you know where to fill the bowsers.
The other 99% of network where they're not telling people not to drink it?
faustus wrote: Thu May 23, 2024 9:44 am tankers need to be food grade but only used for water, which are not as readily available for this duty as you'd need a fleet that is redundant most of the time, costing lots.
Like the ones you see on the road from time to time, with water company branding and "Drinking water only" signs on them?
It's a bit of a pointless tangential discussion this... I get that bottled water is a more convenient solution for everyone... but that's kind of the problem!
Valerio
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Re: Rigs of the 2024....TOR Divide

Post by Valerio »

We're still working on the photos, you can find some info about the finishers here:
https://tordivide.co.uk/2024-edition

Well done everyone who took part.
Some really impressive times there, with 15 riders finishing the Divide route in less than 24hrs.
Not a fluffy gravel rider.
Organiser of the Tor Divide
https://tordivide.co.uk
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