When?????

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Bearbonesnorm
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Re: When?????

Post by Bearbonesnorm » Sun Jun 07, 2020 12:22 pm

I'm now left thinking - how can we even pretend there's some kind of universal lock-down in place? :???:

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summittoppler
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Re: When?????

Post by summittoppler » Sun Jun 07, 2020 12:45 pm

Its makes a mockery of us staying in and doing the clap every Thursday. The recent scenes from Durdle Door, the Lakes and these protests up and down the country is showing how some people don't give a f**k.
There's a fair few of us towing the line and not heading off to the quiet hills for a bivvy even though we're itching to do it.

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Re: When?????

Post by voodoo_simon » Sun Jun 07, 2020 12:51 pm

summittoppler wrote:
Sun Jun 07, 2020 12:45 pm
...and these protests up and down the country is showing how some people don't give a f**k...
I’m thinking the other way, these people DO give a f*ck

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summittoppler
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Re: When?????

Post by summittoppler » Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:02 pm

voodoo_simon wrote:
Sun Jun 07, 2020 12:51 pm
summittoppler wrote:
Sun Jun 07, 2020 12:45 pm
...and these protests up and down the country is showing how some people don't give a f**k...
I’m thinking the other way, these people DO give a f*ck
..as in 'don't give a f**k' about the social distancing malarkey

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PaulB2
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Re: When?????

Post by PaulB2 » Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:25 pm

Social distancing was always going to die a slow death as soon as they changed the message to ‘Stay Alert’ instead of ‘Stay at home’.

My feelings on the demonstrations are a bit mixed. One half of me thinks that it was irresponsible to have a mass meeting in the middle of a pandemic and the other half of me thinks that the cause was just and the vast majority are wearing masks and gloves to help curtail any spread. That said it was it was crass to deface the cenotaph on the anniversary of D-Day

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Re: When?????

Post by K1100T » Sun Jun 07, 2020 2:22 pm

summittoppler wrote:
Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:02 pm
voodoo_simon wrote:
Sun Jun 07, 2020 12:51 pm
summittoppler wrote:
Sun Jun 07, 2020 12:45 pm
...and these protests up and down the country is showing how some people don't give a f**k...
I’m thinking the other way, these people DO give a f*ck
..as in 'don't give a f**k' about the social distancing malarkey
Or maybe they think protesting about another needless, racially motivated death, is more important than the current pandemic. Personally I made the decision not to go to the protest in Cambridge, but then I'm an over privileged, middle class, white person...
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Re: When?????

Post by Lazarus » Sun Jun 07, 2020 2:26 pm

Its not a great time to be having a protest but the cause is just

As a white man i dont feel I should use my position to lecture others on what is and what is not an appropriate response to centures of racism they are on the recieving end and largely from "us" and now thankfully a smaller number of "us"

I listened to a radio 5 programme where some black ex athletes were discussing the protests and racism, What shocked me most was when they discusssed when and how you tell your child about racism and the way people treat you differently for your skin colur - just imagine having to explain that to 4 or 5 yr old child. Things really do need to change.

Its no wonder people are angry but i cannot go 100% yes a protest right now is a great idea due to Covid and it will be surprising if it does not lead to cases.

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Re: When?????

Post by benconnolli » Sun Jun 07, 2020 3:11 pm

These protests are important. Change is needed. The protesters are all wearing masks compared to the beach goers. They would not be doing it if they did not need to. All other avenues have been attempted and systematically shut down or silenced. Even with these protests happening with such a clear message and undeniable motive, it is so easy for the Black Lives Matter message to be quickly diverted into an argument about something less relevant. It is a privilege to educate ourselves about racism as adults but we need to do it.

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Re: When?????

Post by Bearbonesnorm » Sun Jun 07, 2020 4:27 pm

Now, let's not make this about race because once someone waves that moral flag then any reasoned discussion becomes virtually impossible. I'd like to think that we'd all agree that racism or any form of discrimination is something that should be removed from society. However, I'm not sure these protests are doing that really, given the current situation, they appear to have the capacity to divide rather than unite?

Anyway, my point was simply - WTF are the rest of us bothering? Surely, any mass demonstration REGARDLESS of the reasoning, just makes everything people have done for the last 10 weeks look silly.

I'm going to give myself a panda now but feel free to continue.

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summittoppler
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Re: When?????

Post by summittoppler » Sun Jun 07, 2020 4:42 pm

What he says ^^^^
:-bd

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Re: When?????

Post by Lazarus » Sun Jun 07, 2020 4:55 pm

let's not make this about race
There is nothing else we can make it about as it is the reason they are protesting.
I'm not sure these protests are doing that really, given the current situation, they appear to have the capacity to divide rather than unite?
I am not sure there is a way to unite before racism or how to bring unity here without change. I dont think change comes without struggle as the people in power dont give it up whether its something as obvious as votes for women or equal rights irrespective of race.
Its not helping re Covid nor am i helping re unity
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RIP
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Re: When?????

Post by RIP » Sun Jun 07, 2020 5:05 pm

Bearbonesnorm wrote:
Sun Jun 07, 2020 4:27 pm

I'm going to give myself a panda now but feel free to continue.

Good thing about pandas is they are black AND white in equal measure. Shame people aren't like that then nobody would know or care who was "black" and who was "white" or who was "white" and who was "black". Sadly, I suspect, even if that were the case people would find some other way of discriminating against each other, not that that's a reason not to protest. Now, about a misogyny protest.....
Last edited by RIP on Sun Jun 07, 2020 5:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: When?????

Post by redefined_cycles » Sun Jun 07, 2020 5:08 pm

Reg... maybe M Jackson was indeed singing bout Pandas. Well spotted

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Re: When?????

Post by tobasco » Sun Jun 07, 2020 5:51 pm

The Zoe Covid tracker app (yes, there is a UK tracker app, been there since March) provides good maps/info to allow judging situation. Lord knows why HMG are not promoting it.

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Re: When?????

Post by RIP » Sun Jun 07, 2020 5:53 pm

Seems curious to arrange a large-gathering protest in a confined space during a pandemic though, especially given what's known about Cheltenham Races and Liverpool v Madrid footie. Bit ironic that the government repeatedly dismissed the need to cancel mass gatherings in the days leading up to those events but curiously now think the opposite about this protest.

I'd've taken over part of the M25 for example, plenty of room for >2m apart and it would certainly cause some amusing disruption which might give the powers-that-be pause for thought. Would also have avoided a fairly predictable shooting-self-in-foot situation.

As a philosophical point, it can be argued that the whole concept of "race" is meaningless: https://www.nationalgeographic.com/maga ... ce-africa/. eg. "There is no homogeneous African race,” says geneticist Sarah Tishkoff of the University of Pennsylvania. “It doesn’t exist.” Alice Roberts, the biological anthropologist, made a fascinating series called "The Incredible Human Journey" which also addressed all this.

A lot of the blame goes to Samuel Morton a 19C U.S. creationist (uh-oh) who filled loads of old skulls with pepper seeds to measure them for "brain size". The Dutch skull he obtained happened to be huge so that rather nicely fitted the idea that his made-up "Caucasian" race were the most intelligent..... obviously slave traders weren't slow on the uptake when it came to classifying their made-up race of "African" victims.... "When Morton died, in 1851, the Charleston Medical Journal in South Carolina praised him for “giving to the negro his true position as an inferior race.”......

Perhaps continuing to use the R word, and its associated words, is not helping to improve the situation. What do individuals mean by the word? - country of origin? continent of origin? colour/pigment? culture? language? music? All of these have been used as a "reason" for "racism", sometimes in combination; although admittedly it's usually colour/pigment that is involved. Plainly we're all descended from humans based in Africa (and for 200,000 of our 300,000 year history we all lived there) and have the same genetic make-up, ergo we are ALL just "the human race" and ALL "African" :smile: . Whatever's going on is wrong, but maybe it needs a different way of looking at it?

I'm not completely off-topic: all the aforementioned excludes bikepackers - we're a total race apart :grin:

Anyway, we've hijacked poor ballibeg's thread, sorry chap. In some sort of attempt to get back on track then, "No new Covid deaths in 24 hours in Scotland":

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-52956223
Last edited by RIP on Sun Jun 07, 2020 7:51 pm, edited 11 times in total.
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Re: When?????

Post by ScotRoutes » Sun Jun 07, 2020 6:43 pm

Yeah, figures are always down at the weekends for clerical reasons, so not time to celebrate. Definitely moving in the right direction though. That should mean moving to Phase 2 of the process on 19th June as planned.
Phase 2
To progress to Phase 2, the virus must now be controlled, R must be consistently below 1 and the six WHO criteria described above must now be in place. Any signs of resurgence will be closely monitored as part of enhanced community surveillance but the risk of spreading the virus remains.

During this phase, further changes are made to ease the restrictions in place and further resumptions or expansions of public services are made. The rules set out in the previous phase apply except as set out below.

Seeing family and friends: In Phase 2, you would be able to meet outside with larger groups including family and friends with physical distancing. You would also be able to meet people from another household indoors with physical distancing and hygiene measures.

Getting around: In Phase 2, consistent with the reopening of workplaces set out in this phase, it is our plan that the default position is for people to work from home where possible. Where that is not possible businesses and organisations are encouraged to manage travel demand through staggered start times and flexible working patterns.

People will be able to drive locally for leisure and exercise purposes.

We are planning for public transport operating increased services but capacity would still be significantly limited to allow for physical distancing. Travel at peak times would remain discouraged as far as possible.

There may be geographical differences in approaches to transport depending on circumstances.

Schools, childcare and other educational settings: In Phase 2 we are planning for on campus university lab research to restart subject to physical distancing.

Working or running a business: In Phase 2, remote working should remain the default position for those who can. Non-essential, indoor non-office-based workplaces can resume, once relevant guidance has been agreed – including factories and warehouses, lab and research facilities – with physical distancing. We are planning for the construction sector to implement remaining stages of phased return.

We anticipate a relaxation of restrictions on housing moves.

Shopping, eating out and drinking: We expect that previously closed small retail units will be allowed to re-open with physical distancing in place. We are also planning on opening outdoor markets with physical distancing, hygiene measures and controls on numbers of people.

Pubs and restaurants can open outdoor spaces with physical distancing and increased hygiene routines.

Sport, culture and leisure activities: In Phase 2 we are planning a reopening of playgrounds and sports courts with physical distancing, and a resumption of professional sport in line with public health advice.

Community and public services: Scaling up of public services from phase 1 where it is safe to do so.

Gatherings and occasions: In Phase 2, we plan for registration offices to open for high priority tasks. Places of worship would be able to open for private prayer with physical distancing and hygiene safeguards. We are also planning to allow marriages, civil partnerships and other types of ceremonies to take place with a limited number of attendees.

Health and Social Care: In Phase 2, remobilisation plans will be implemented by Health Boards and Integrated Joint Boards to increase the provision for the backlog of demand, urgent referrals and the triage of routine services.

This phase will see the reintroduction of some chronic disease management, which could include pain and diabetic services.

Prioritised referrals to secondary care will begin.

We expect to expand the range of GP services, optometry and ophthalmology services and see an increase in availability of dental services.

There will be an increased number of home visits to shielded patients.

We will continue to plan with COSLA and Scottish Care and other national and local partners to support and, where needed, review social care and care home services.

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Re: When?????

Post by RIP » Sun Jun 07, 2020 6:54 pm

I think us Sassies are waiting to see what happens on 4th July at the moment aren't we?

(edit: that'd be ironically funny wouldn't it - Independence Day! :grin: )
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Re: When?????

Post by slarge » Sun Jun 07, 2020 8:24 pm

Having ridden past a car boot sale today (with queues to get in), I can't help think that it might be a while before we are safe to go out. However we might be allowed out a long time before that.

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Re: When?????

Post by K1100T » Sun Jun 07, 2020 8:28 pm

I'm just patiently waiting for the OK from Nicola, to drive all the way to Scotland so I can visit my folks. Preferably staying for a few days, etc, even if that means in their caravan, or a tent in their garden...

Given the scenes on the telly box this evening, I'm expecting a rather large spike in new cases by this time next week... 🤷‍♂️
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Re: When?????

Post by frogatthefarriers » Sun Jun 07, 2020 8:29 pm

RIP wrote:
Sun Jun 07, 2020 5:05 pm
Sadly, I suspect, even if that were the case people would find some other way of discriminating against each other,
So true. Look how many ways people of the same colour find to discriminate against each other. Christians have found ways to split hairs ever finer, then hate each other for it
Konia kują, żaba noge podstawia...

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Re: When?????

Post by RIP » Sun Jun 07, 2020 9:03 pm

frogatthefarriers wrote:
Sun Jun 07, 2020 8:29 pm
RIP wrote:
Sun Jun 07, 2020 5:05 pm
Sadly, I suspect, even if that were the case people would find some other way of discriminating against each other,
So true. Look how many ways people of the same colour find to discriminate against each other. Christians have found ways to split hairs ever finer, then hate each other for it
At this point I believe it's traditional in This Place to produce this link :smile:

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Re: When?????

Post by voodoo_simon » Sun Jun 07, 2020 9:42 pm

Whatever words I type just don’t seem to sound right or sincere, so all I’ll say it that I think the cause is very much justified (and I don’t think anyone is arguing this point) and it seems we’re at critical point with it, so I’m fully behind the protest marches happening right now.

It’s a shame that peaceful protesting in the NFL hasn’t worked and that our government continue to screw up people’s lives due to their colour (see Windrush).

- - -

I’m with everyone else though I’m missing the outdoors. Ellesmere Port is hardly known for its mountains and I’m missing them so much. I really do hope the R values decrease soon and we can return to the outdoors :-bd

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Re: When?????

Post by JohnClimber » Sun Jun 07, 2020 10:13 pm

Bearbonesnorm wrote:
Sun Jun 07, 2020 4:27 pm
Anyway, my point was simply - WTF are the rest of us bothering? Surely, any mass demonstration REGARDLESS of the reasoning, just makes everything people have done for the last 10 weeks look silly.
The problem is that 1 or 2 people social distancing from each other and found bivi'ing on an empty hill top with no one for miles around will be easier to charge, fine and make an example of over an angry raging crowd.

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Re: When?????

Post by Chew » Sun Jun 07, 2020 10:37 pm

The problem is that 1 or 2 people social distancing from each other and found bivi'ing on an empty hill top with no one for miles around will be easier to charge, fine and make an example of over an angry raging crowd.
I don’t understand the paranoia over this.
Who’s going to find you?
And how is this any different from things in “normal” times?

I don’t want to get derailed by the rights/wrongs of protesting in the current situation, but there’s a far greater risk of the virus spreading through that activity, than people heading out into the hills close to home.

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Re: When?????

Post by JohnClimber » Mon Jun 08, 2020 5:06 pm

Chew wrote:
Sun Jun 07, 2020 10:37 pm
I don’t understand the paranoia over this.
Who’s going to find you?
My local bivi spot was one of the one's featured heavily in the press and social media where the scum bags were leaving tons of litter and having fires in the woods.
There has also been a massive local rave in some other woods just last weekend.

So, the police helicopter with its thermal camera is up and about over the area every night, plus the locals are up in arms about the litter and are understandably very angry and un trust worthy of anything that's out of the ordinary.

I've my eye on a hillside but that's a 45 to 50mile ride through lanes away, so at the moment there is nothing local for me on the outskirts of Liverpool.

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