If we close up for a bit...

Talk about anything.

Moderators: Bearbonesnorm, Taylor, Chew

Who will still go out for a bivvy ride?

I will
10
15%
I won’t
43
65%
Undecided
13
20%
 
Total votes: 66

redefined_cycles
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Re: If we close up for a bit...

Post by redefined_cycles » Sun Apr 12, 2020 11:23 pm

Escape Goat wrote:
Sun Apr 12, 2020 10:28 pm
I'm not likely to screen shot anything or post anything anywhere with details of the rider and the ride they done, but I wasn't sure if I was alone or not on thinking that a certain amount of piss is being taken. I could easily go out all day on the bike and cover plenty of miles, weathers perfect and I have the time.

I mean it's pretty basic, the NHS want us to stay at home. but due to no law being laid about the time you're allowed to ride is a loophole that people know about, I'm also confused how I feel about "big" rides because I don't know what the cut off point is that gets me upset. So many unknowns. I know anything above 100 kind of makes me question peoples lack of respect for others and themselves going through multiple different communities - even if they "didn't see anyone out".

I have no power to suggest to someone what they can and can't do. I can't sway their decisions either way, but I know I get sad with actions of others that I find are going against what we need to do right now.
I was thinking the same thing today Al... I screenshotted a few of my (tosser) mates to my other mate/s who were....

Anyway, there's piss takers and piss takers. They obviously dont realise that a London nurse (from what I've heard briefly but looked into it proper) killed herself due to the death toll. London is a place that most of us (I'm originally from Leeds Teaching Hs so pretty used to being busy ans hokding in my wee for a certain amount of time as Leeds is one of the busier ones up in middle England... But mention London to amyone from outside there and they'd think you're mad trying to go work there... Its that busy. Now amplofy that with 3 times more traffic and its a :o

Anyway, point is... Theres &%$#@%s and theres *&$%#@s... Lets try not to be either

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Re: If we close up for a bit...

Post by Escape Goat » Sun Apr 12, 2020 11:26 pm

I think possibly I've had my last say on it... Least I hope so. Its really getting to me. But I can't change it. So I should just continue with my trainer and playing on os maps :)
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Re: If we close up for a bit...

Post by redefined_cycles » Sun Apr 12, 2020 11:40 pm

Escape Goat wrote:
Sun Apr 12, 2020 11:26 pm
I think possibly I've had my last say on it... Least I hope so. Its really getting to me. But I can't change it. So I should just continue with my trainer and playing on os maps :)
Ditto... I'm still going out (well have done once, since the lockdown but only cos I felt too gutted to go out) and have found a nice singletrack that I can do hill repeats up... maybe by the end of this all I'll be ready for a BB200 climb!
Last edited by redefined_cycles on Sun Apr 12, 2020 11:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: If we close up for a bit...

Post by Escape Goat » Sun Apr 12, 2020 11:42 pm

We will never be ready for one of them hehe.
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jameso
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Re: If we close up for a bit...

Post by jameso » Wed Apr 15, 2020 9:36 pm

RE that breathing distance 'study' - https://www.vice.com/en_uk/article/v74a ... ly-a-study

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Re: If we close up for a bit...

Post by Zippy » Thu Apr 16, 2020 10:58 am

jameso wrote:
Wed Apr 15, 2020 9:36 pm
RE that breathing distance 'study' - https://www.vice.com/en_uk/article/v74a ... ly-a-study
Thanks James :smile:

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Re: If we close up for a bit...

Post by Cheeky Monkey » Thu Apr 16, 2020 11:37 am

I came across this:

https://www.college.police.uk/What-we-d ... gtF2yKXtQs

... and particularly this:

https://www.college.police.uk/What-we-d ... excuse.pdf

"What constitutes a reasonable excuse to leave the place where you live", CPS information.

Threads on the IPROW FB page can become quite ....... er ..... passionate, this was the one where I got the aforementioned links:

https://www.facebook.com/IPROWuk/posts/ ... __tn__=K-R

The more I read this sort of stuff (the last link) the more I want to just hug people more often. There just don't seem to be enough pandas in the world :cry:

PS - I'm not looking to go into the whys, wherefores, rights/wrongs etc. I'm just interested and trying to share knowledge / information. Discuss it by all means, go over the top and there's a withering Paddington Bear stare (on the internet :lol:) waiting for you. Oh, and a specially trained super-panda that will fuk yo sh1t right up!

:cool:

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Re: If we close up for a bit...

Post by thenorthwind » Thu Apr 16, 2020 11:44 am

Interesting. I did a bit of background research before I shared it too my club, and took that the mainstream media where attributing it to reputable research institutes to be good enough.

To be fair, it seems more that the "viral" media (of which Vice seems to be a part of) taking some information, extrapolating it way too far, and drawing conclusions from it that were never meant to be drawn, is the problem here. So nothing new there.

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Re: If we close up for a bit...

Post by Jurassic » Thu Apr 16, 2020 12:56 pm

Cheeky Monkey wrote:
Thu Apr 16, 2020 11:37 am
I came across this:

https://www.college.police.uk/What-we-d ... gtF2yKXtQs

... and particularly this:

https://www.college.police.uk/What-we-d ... excuse.pdf

"What constitutes a reasonable excuse to leave the place where you live", CPS information.

Threads on the IPROW FB page can become quite ....... er ..... passionate, this was the one where I got the aforementioned links:

https://www.facebook.com/IPROWuk/posts/ ... __tn__=K-R

The more I read this sort of stuff (the last link) the more I want to just hug people more often. There just don't seem to be enough pandas in the world :cry:

PS - I'm not looking to go into the whys, wherefores, rights/wrongs etc. I'm just interested and trying to share knowledge / information. Discuss it by all means, go over the top and there's a withering Paddington Bear stare (on the internet :lol:) waiting for you. Oh, and a specially trained super-panda that will fuk yo sh1t right up!

:cool:
The COP/CPS guidance seems quite measured and reasonable to me but the FB thread is just like lots of social media with people with entrenched, strong opinions telling other people with contradictory opinions that they're wrong. :roll:
Imagesomeone-is-wrong-on-the-internet by Jurassic690, on Flickr

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Re: If we close up for a bit...

Post by Cheeky Monkey » Thu Apr 16, 2020 2:38 pm

Seen that one before but very funny :grin:

It risks being rather circular but a thread on STW world (yes Scotrotes, even a broken clock is right twice a day :wink:) posted this:

https://www.politics.co.uk/comment-anal ... denunciati

Lovely :cool: and for those that can't be assed to follow the link here it is in full:
Stop shaming: This crisis calls for generosity, not denunciation

Wednesday, 15 April 2020 10:45 AM
By Jonathan Lis

The last few weeks have been the most bewildering of our lives. The things we took for granted are now lost. The things we considered normal are now taboo. It has shown millions of people at their best: volunteering in their community, shopping for neighbours, coming together to applaud the NHS. But for all the altruism and kindness, it has revealed something else too - a profound national puritanism.

Every week brings new public enemies. First it was the dog-walkers who had driven a short distance. Social media shamed them and individuals found angry notes left on their cars. Then it was the sunbathers. They were denounced for spreading the virus and Piers Morgan called for the NHS to deny them treatment. Now it is the people who walk together in the street or stop to greet neighbours. Daily reports emerge of passers-by shouting, swearing or even calling the police. It is always absurd when people declare that East German-style communism could never have reached freedom-loving Britain. You suspect that if it ever had, a quarter of the population would have signed up as secret informants in the first month.

Then, of course, we have the police themselves. They are performing a vital role, and many have been subjected to unacceptable abuse. But a minority of officers are behaving poorly. Individual forces have talked or tweeted about checking shopping trolleys and non-essential supermarket aisles. People have been forced off park benches, as though the legislation specifies you cannot sit down while exercising. One man was arrested when attempting to deliver goods for a vulnerable neighbour. And some police have appeared to invent entirely new laws about how many householders are allowed out at any given time and how far from their homes they are permitted to travel. This behaviour not only brings individuals into close proximity with one another. In its obvious over-reach, it risks costing public trust in the police, and therefore in the regulations themselves. In short, it is not going to curb transmission of the virus.

There are two distinct things happening here. The first is a moral policing of one's neighbours. The second is a gratuitously heavy-handed interpretation of the rules. They have numerous things in common.

There is the culture of shaming. Twitter has been flooded with footage of people daring to visit parks, which remain open, even as the vast majority observe social distancing. Various police forces, meanwhile, have boasted about their punishments and posted pictures of the offences.

Then there is the loss of proportion. Of course there are good reasons to stop people sunbathing, as it encourages others to do the same and theoretically creates crowds. But it is not itself the enemy. It is not in the same league as hosting a barbecue or a football match, and in most cases it is safer than going to the supermarket. Equally, it may not be ideal to drive a short way to take exercise, as the car might break down, but it is far safer to take exercise in an open space than on the pavement, and accidents can also happen when people stay at home and do DIY.

Third is the failure to empathise. For many people this will be the most stressful moment of their lives. They may feel lonely, claustrophobic, anxious about their health or livelihoods or those of their families. Many do not have gardens and will be suffering from their lack of personal space. Some will be in agonising or abusive relationships and need some time to themselves. And others really will need to sit down when they exercise.

But what this really amounts to is a culture of prohibition. It produces an opportunity not to enforce public health but uncompromising obedience. It focuses not on stopping the virus, but pleasure. Individuals see a ban, often subjectively interpret it, then judge others for not following it as overtly and faithfully as they are. It is as though some people are competing to see who can be the most hardline and unbending, and casting anyone less rigid as directly responsible for people's deaths.

Of course, the most important thing is that the regulations are there for a valid reason and people should follow them. I am not advocating sunbathing. But, aside from washing one's hands, only one thing will stop the virus: maintaining physical distancing. If people are guided by that one central rule, there is no reason why they cannot sit somewhere quietly on their own or with members of their household. If the area becomes too busy, notices should (and in some cases already do) ask people to go elsewhere. If people are endangering safety, engagement may prove more constructive than condemnation. A compulsion to judge should not trump an instinct to understand.

The problem in recent weeks is that we have focused on the rules themselves, not their purpose. Much like Brexit before it, they have become something we do because the government tells us, not because they are valuable on their own terms. This is the basic tenet of an illiberal democracy, which places people in service of the law, rather than the law in service to people.

Sitting down while exercising will not spread the virus. Nor will going for a second run. The government recognises we need to go to the shops and actually recommends we take exercise. The key is to stay safe while doing the things that we are advised or need to do.

People are trying to get by in difficult circumstances, and we should respond with generosity and pragmatism. We can stay both mentally and physically healthy if we keep our distance, wash our hands, and treat ourselves and one another with kindness. The lesson of suffering is not that everyone should suffer in solidarity. It's that we make the most of life, safely, while we're lucky enough to enjoy it.

Jonathan Lis is deputy director of the pro-EU think tank British Influence and a political writer and commentator.

The opinions in Politics.co.uk's Comment and Analysis section are those of the author and are no reflection of the views of the website or its owners.
"Borrowed" from the following website. I hope the don't mind.

https://www.politics.co.uk/

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Re: If we close up for a bit...

Post by RIP » Thu Apr 16, 2020 2:59 pm

Interested that that link got abbreviated to https://www.politics.co.uk/comment-anal...denunciation. I can see what they're getting at, not my cup of tea at all, but each to their own behind closed doors and all that? Denunciation seems a bit harsh.
"There comes a time in your life Ponsonby, when you think: 'My God, I'm two-thirds of the way to the grave and what have I done?" - RIP

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Re: If we close up for a bit...

Post by MuddyPete » Thu Apr 16, 2020 10:33 pm

Hmmm...when I clicked your link Reg, it merely said...

"Error 404! You've found yourself somewhere you shouldn't be."

:???:

:wink:
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Re: If we close up for a bit...

Post by RIP » Fri Apr 17, 2020 8:36 am

:smile: . I know it's it's a bit lavatorial humour but I'll grab a wry smile wherever I can at the moment. The alternative is not an option.
"There comes a time in your life Ponsonby, when you think: 'My God, I'm two-thirds of the way to the grave and what have I done?" - RIP

"It is in the petty details, not in the great results, that the interest of existence lies" - JKJ

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Re: If we close up for a bit...

Post by RIP » Tue Apr 21, 2020 6:58 pm

Been a bit quiet on this thread for a few days. Just been idly thinking/speculating about "well how will we know when we're 'allowed' to do a bivvy ride?". I would imagine it's unlikely that the 5 o'clock Briefing will specifically mention it at the appropriate moment, so what statement will implicitly cover it do you think? "picnics are now allowed" wouldn't. "holidays now allowed" obviously would. "short breaks not in big groups" probably would.

TBH, done the garden twice now and bored with it. Admittedly not taken advantage of the wendy house or tool shed, but still bored. So I'd like to go slightly further afield - just within the town boundary would do me. Solo, well-hidden, gentle ride, safer than at home in bed (*) so not infringing the "mustn't cause a problem for emergency services", etc.

And yes I'm well aware of the "Is It Alright If" rule.

(*) majority of accidents occur at home. Most likely is a fall. So, less likely is a non-hammock-based outdoor bivvy.
Last edited by RIP on Tue Apr 21, 2020 8:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"There comes a time in your life Ponsonby, when you think: 'My God, I'm two-thirds of the way to the grave and what have I done?" - RIP

"It is in the petty details, not in the great results, that the interest of existence lies" - JKJ

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Re: If we close up for a bit...

Post by Chew » Tue Apr 21, 2020 7:45 pm

RIP wrote:
Tue Apr 21, 2020 6:58 pm
Been a bit quiet on this thread for a few days. Just been idling thinking/speculating about "well how will we know when we're 'allowed' to do a bivvy ride?"
Unsure they are going to roll out the Queen to say you can go out for a bivi Reg :wink:

We're all signed up to this for another 2 weeks, but after that we can hope for some loosing of the restrictions.
If the metrics keep heading in the right direction and the novelty of being at home all of the time starts to wear off, people are going to want to to take a step back to 'normality

It depends on individual conscious if going for a night out is within the spirit of the regulations?

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Re: If we close up for a bit...

Post by ScotRoutes » Tue Apr 21, 2020 7:52 pm

I've been giving this some more thought too. I'm 99% sure I've now had Covid-19. So (and assuming that makes me immune now) I could go out for a bivvy without any risk to me. My risk of passing it on to someone else is similarly decreased, though transference of live virus by touch is a very, very remote possibility. I could certainly choose a route/pitch that wouldn't even see me meeting another person.

The weather is currently stunning. Cold, clear nights (-5.5C) warm, clear days (16.5C).

Terrain is very dry.

I've not done April BAM yet.


I reckon I can do a garden bivvy for one night. Mrs SR has said she might join me. After that though.....
Chew wrote:
Tue Apr 21, 2020 7:45 pm
It depends on individual conscious if going for a night out is within the spirit of the regulations?
Quite. Though I could certainly do a night out within the purpose of the regulations.

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Re: If we close up for a bit...

Post by Jurassic » Tue Apr 21, 2020 8:02 pm

ScotRoutes wrote:
Tue Apr 21, 2020 7:52 pm
I'm 99% sure I've now had Covid-19. So (and assuming that makes me immune now) I could go out for a bivvy without any risk to me.
I believe there's now some evidence that this is not the case and that it may well be possible to catch it more than once.

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Re: If we close up for a bit...

Post by ScotRoutes » Tue Apr 21, 2020 8:09 pm

Jurassic wrote:
Tue Apr 21, 2020 8:02 pm
ScotRoutes wrote:
Tue Apr 21, 2020 7:52 pm
I'm 99% sure I've now had Covid-19. So (and assuming that makes me immune now) I could go out for a bivvy without any risk to me.
I believe there's now some evidence that this is not the case and that it may well be possible to catch it more than once.
Yeah - the jury is out. (a) there's the possibility that some folk are shaking off the virus without developing the antibodies and (b) we don't know if the antibodies confer immunity anyway. In practical terms though, where I am and what I know of the place I could do a risk-free bivvy. Let's' face it, compared with going to the shops, or the person-to-person contact my wife is exposed to as part of her job as a care at home worker, a night outdoors isn't risky at all. Of course, there is then a moral argument, plus the fact that we (as a society) do seem to be gradually spiralling out of lockdown.

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Re: If we close up for a bit...

Post by RIP » Tue Apr 21, 2020 8:14 pm

ScotRoutes wrote:
Tue Apr 21, 2020 7:52 pm
Chew wrote:
Tue Apr 21, 2020 7:45 pm
It depends on individual conscious if going for a night out is within the spirit of the regulations?
Quite. Though I could certainly do a night out within the purpose of the regulations.
Aye, points taken. I don't want to break the IIAI Rule so I suspect I might still be stuck in the garden for May, but then again I wouldn't want to miss any implicit re-opening because I hadn't worked out beforehand the nuances needed to spot it.
Last edited by RIP on Tue Apr 21, 2020 8:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"There comes a time in your life Ponsonby, when you think: 'My God, I'm two-thirds of the way to the grave and what have I done?" - RIP

"It is in the petty details, not in the great results, that the interest of existence lies" - JKJ

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Re: If we close up for a bit...

Post by BigdummySteve » Tue Apr 21, 2020 8:18 pm

I’m itching to get out as well, in the main I’ve been trekking up and down a local hill averaging 1000ft a day uppity. I did admittedly break the rules slightly a couple if days ago, my mum was taken into intensive care and obviously my old man wasn’t allowed to go with her. It was very touch and go. I made it until 3am then jumped on the bike and blasted the 12 miles to their village, we waited for the call then a rode home at 05:30. Thankfully she is still sedated but it’s so horrible that people are having to leave loved ones alone.
At the moment I’d like to pack up a bike and just keep riding forever, if life my life ever returns to normal I’m going to go for a very long ride, it might even involve panniers :shock:
:-bd

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Re: If we close up for a bit...

Post by RIP » Tue Apr 21, 2020 8:22 pm

BigdummySteve wrote:
Tue Apr 21, 2020 8:18 pm
people are having to leave loved ones alone
Sorry to hear of your woes Steve. That quote is one of the most difficult things to have to go through surely. It's heart-rending to see stories like that in the media.
"There comes a time in your life Ponsonby, when you think: 'My God, I'm two-thirds of the way to the grave and what have I done?" - RIP

"It is in the petty details, not in the great results, that the interest of existence lies" - JKJ

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Re: If we close up for a bit...

Post by ScotRoutes » Tue Apr 21, 2020 8:25 pm

My brother-in-law died last week (long term cancer). As if things weren't bad enough, my wife couldn't visit him, couldn't go to the funeral and still can't go to see his partner.

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Re: If we close up for a bit...

Post by RIP » Tue Apr 21, 2020 8:29 pm

BigdummySteve wrote:
Tue Apr 21, 2020 8:18 pm
it might even involve panniers
Steady on old boy!

"Yes, I've wanted to pass the port from left to right just as young Daintry did...." (*)

Image

(*) I've just checked this, in fact it was Cooper who wanted to pass the port the wrong way. Never noticed that before. Wonder if Palin realised. Had you spotted that "goof" already NorthWind?
Last edited by RIP on Tue Apr 21, 2020 8:48 pm, edited 2 times in total.
"There comes a time in your life Ponsonby, when you think: 'My God, I'm two-thirds of the way to the grave and what have I done?" - RIP

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Re: If we close up for a bit...

Post by RIP » Tue Apr 21, 2020 8:33 pm

Obviously feel for you too Colin with your news :sad: .
"There comes a time in your life Ponsonby, when you think: 'My God, I'm two-thirds of the way to the grave and what have I done?" - RIP

"It is in the petty details, not in the great results, that the interest of existence lies" - JKJ

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Re: If we close up for a bit...

Post by BigdummySteve » Tue Apr 21, 2020 8:38 pm

Sorry, emotional response I’ll get over it.

To be fair though a set of front panniers on the back and an open itinerary is extremely appealing at the moment. It’s a very odd time, normally we have the freedom but not the time. The escape of a night out is very much needed, and to be honest if I pop down the local wood for a ride and fall asleep amongst the pines it’s safer than going to the spar.
:-bd

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