Competitive Gravelwanking

[Gregsie]

Heard a month or two about this (was approached by the folks that are organising it, but that's a different story) that the UCI are introducing a world series for gravel racing.

https://www.cyclingnews.com/features/uc ... rAqoEQWGyg

Can't see it being a big thing on this fair isle due to the laws regarding racing on bridleways unless you can get Forestry Commision or similar to play ball. However how long before there's UCI compliant bikes and rules and regs on tyres and geometry etc and they totally wring any form of creativity out of what's being made at the moment.

[Bearbonesnorm]

Won't really matter if the FC do play ball - still can't race on a BW, no matter who's permission you've got. It'll take a change in the law first.

and

as cyclists avoid the dangers of traffic-filled roads and enjoy the more relaxed and rule-free ambiance

All seems like something of a contradiction really doesn't it?

But that's an aside. The really good thing is, you win the internet today for this - 'Competitive Gravelwanking'

[Piemonster]

Plus one for that

Easily adaptable to Competitive Gravel W***** too.

[ScotRoutes]

Can't see it being a big thing on this fair isle due to the laws regarding racing on bridleways unless you can get Forestry Commision or similar to play ball.

"This fair isle" extends beyond Englandandwales, not that I'm necessarily in favour of races being held on public paths of any sort.

[Gregsie]

But that's an aside. The really good thing is, you win the internet today for this - 'Competitive Gravelwanking'

You're welcome.

[lune ranger]

'Competitive Gravelwanking'

Reminds me of when I was at boarding school

[johnnystorm]

Somebody is certainly playing ball...

[In Reverse]

Won't really matter if the FC do play ball - still can't race on a BW, no matter who's permission you've got. It'll take a change in the law first.

You can, presumably, apply to have a RoW closed for a day for a race, same as road closures for road races. I'm assuming this is what happens for the Dirty Reiver/Kielder 100/Ard Rock - they've all included sections of bridleways and footpaths in my experience.

[Bearbonesnorm]

You can, presumably, apply to have a RoW closed for a day for a race

Oh yes, you can get a RoW closed reasonably easily for the duration of a day or weekend.

I'm assuming this is what happens for the Dirty Reiver/Kielder 100/Ard Rock - they've all included sections of bridleways and footpaths in my experience.

But this is where it gets tricky - even if closed, you still can't 'race' a bicycle along it. You can race a car, motorbike, tractor, wheelbarrow or anything else you like but not a pushbike. In the case of footpaths, then racing a bicycle is fine. When I had dealings with NRW about holding an event in Hafren, I was expressly forbidden to even cross or intersect a BW. Any course had to be 100% BW free but anything else was fair game.

[In Reverse]

Might be worth an email to the Ard Rock/Focus lads to see how they got round it. The Ard Rock Marathon course appears to be majority on bridleway. They did chop 8km off the route last time which I suspected was something to do with RoW permissions.

[Bearbonesnorm]

The Ard Rock Marathon course appears to be majority on bridleway.

{guessing} Could it be that the BW sections are only linking sections and are in no way timed? That negates any issues.

[In Reverse]

The Ard Rock Marathon course appears to be majority on bridleway.

{guessing} Could it be that the BW sections are only linking sections and are in no way timed? That negates any issues.

Nah the marathon's an XC race, one lap, all timed.

[pistonbroke]

Strap yourself in for a history lesson.
I was on the governing body of Trailquests (mtb orienteering) during the late '90s and the issue of racing cycles on bridleways was obviously a major issue which had forced the abandonment of the bike element on the man vs horse vs bike race in mid Wales. A local nimby had found a law dating back to the mid 1800's which came under the stature of wanton and furious cycling and expressly forbade the racing of cycles on bridleways, as 90% of the m v h v b course was on bridleways, it couldn't be insured and so bikes were stopped.
Much of the course was regularly used on motorcycle enduros, car rallies, and still maintained the running and horse riding element.
Trailquest events were, at that time, 5 hour score events which took away any element of the winner being decided by fastest time over the course. Even ties had to be decided by anything other than time which was sometimes a bit convoluted. There was a growing demand for mtbo events which followed the running orienteering rules of collecting checkpoints in a fixed order with the fastest being the winner but these were nigh on impossible to organise in England and Wales.
Our saviour came in the unlikely form of the actress Glenda Jackson who was Labour Transport Minister at the time. She tabled a bill to have this stupid law overturned but 2 months before it was to be voted on, an election was called and it died, never to be resurrected.
The current situation is frought with danger for the growing number of races and timed events whereby organisers are seemingly ignoring or ignorant of the law. Even if said organisers had taken out 3rd party insurance and god forbid there was a life changing or fatal injury to a member of the public or competitior, a thorough loss adjuster would soon find that the event was run illegally and void the insurance, thus making the organiser personally liable.
Incidentally the law of wanton and furious cycling was recently used to prosecute the guy on a brakeless fixie who knocked down and killed a woman who'd wandered into the road staring at her phone so it isn't some arcane law that's sat gathering dust.

[Bearbonesnorm]

Incidentally the law of wanton and furious cycling was recently used to prosecute the guy on a brakeless fixie who knocked down and killed a woman who'd wandered into the road staring at her phone so it isn't some arcane law that's sat gathering dust.

That's right. People may be surprised how much it still gets banded about as the powers that be are very well aware of it.

[Gregsie]

It was only in 1968 that bikes were legally allowed on bridleways http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1968/41/section/30. Also the same bit of law that states that ramblers and horse riders have right of way over cyclists.

Organise a few non competitive events up in the Peak and the real fun comes when you want to run an event on concessionary bridleways and get permission. Had to apply to English Nature for one event because it was across an SSSI and the permission came in too late, despite me applying 6 months in advance.

As Pistonbroke says, the law is a minefield and it's not just a case of coming up with something on Strava and winging it.

The law really is a farce and needs an update. Shame British Cycling haven't picked up on it.

Could be wrong (usually am) but think, at the moment, the only way that competitive gravel riding will be done in the UK is if they run an enduro style event with timed stages which would be fun but not exactly the Dirty Kanza.

[thenorthwind]

Could be wrong (usually am) but think, at the moment, the only way that competitive gravel riding will be done in the UK is if they run an enduro style event with timed stages which would be fun but not exactly the Dirty Kanza.

See the Racing Collective XXXDuro events.

(where XXX denotes is a location, not indicating the nature of the events )

[ScotRoutes]

Could be wrong (usually am) but think, at the moment, the only way that competitive gravel riding will be done in the UK is if they run an enduro style event with timed stages which would be fun but not exactly the Dirty Kanza.

As already pointed out, the UK currently includes Scotland.

[Bearbonesnorm]

Could be wrong (usually am) but think, at the moment, the only way that competitive gravel riding will be done in the UK is if they run an enduro style event with timed stages which would be fun but not exactly the Dirty Kanza.

If we ignore the sensible folk in Scotland for a second, then you could / can run a gravel race in England / Wales quite legally - you'd just have to avoid including any BW. As I said earlier, I looked into arranging something along the lines in Hafren forest and everyone was quite happy as long as the course excluded all BW. There was still a number of hoops to jump through but it was doable.

[pistonbroke]

Shame British Cycling haven't picked up on it.

That's a good one, BC are only interested in Olympic Golds as it is the measure of success and therefore continued funding by the government via the lottery. You don't tend to get many bridleways in velodromes.
The CTC did have a campaign which prompted the proposed law change in the mid 90's but that was scuppered for the reasons I mentioned earlier. These events for ordinary cyclists fall into a black hole of being not elite enough for BC and too racy for CTC.

[Gregsie]

Could be wrong (usually am) but think, at the moment, the only way that competitive gravel riding will be done in the UK is if they run an enduro style event with timed stages which would be fun but not exactly the Dirty Kanza.

As already pointed out, the UK currently includes Scotland.

My bad. Wangland then.

[Gregsie]

Could be wrong (usually am) but think, at the moment, the only way that competitive gravel riding will be done in the UK is if they run an enduro style event with timed stages which would be fun but not exactly the Dirty Kanza.

If we ignore the sensible folk in Scotland for a second, then you could / can run a gravel race in England / Wales quite legally - you'd just have to avoid including any BW. As I said earlier, I looked into arranging something along the lines in Hafren forest and everyone was quite happy as long as the course excluded all BW. There was still a number of hoops to jump through but it was doable.

That's the problem in England and Wales - finding a big enough expanse of private land with suitable trails where the landowner would play ball, where there's no bridleways getting in the way. Know that XC MTB races manage it, but that's different terrain and over shorter courses.

[Bearbonesnorm]

It would be fairly easy to do in some of the big forests like Hafren, Dovey, Kielder etc. A section of the BB200 went through Hafren a few years ago and if I do say so myself, it was a cracker. It was only a small amount of what's there though. Similar thing this year in the Dovey but people are trying to forget about that