Unethical Outdoors - Instagram

[jameso]

Good work here - https://www.instagram.com/unethicaloutdoors/?hl=en

Whether you like IG or not (and this isn't what this is about) there's no doubt it's very influential in terms of places and inspiration, it's also (imho) a very effective medium to get a message across - the classic single image and tag line of all the best advertising. This is a good account and I wonder if the LNT ideals that shape how we act outdoors might benefit from a UK/European version.

[mechanicaldope]

Don't disagree that LNT is a good thing, this particular site appears to be a bit on the extreme side for me. As a concept of how to get a point across it is OK.

[jameso]

Yeah there's a few posts making an example of something I'd probably not pick up on - but maybe that's no bad thing. It could be easy to dismiss these small things in the general scheme of human impact but I'm all for facing up to the impact small things have, since then you realise how big the problem is. Context and pragmatism in all though, agreed.

[Bearbonesnorm]

Am I missing something? I can see the odd picture of rubbish, vandalism and fires but in many of the pictures, I'm failing to see what's actually wrong or the issue being highlighted. Perhaps I'm from the generation that requires, clear, easily understandable captions or explanations? I'm also thinking that if the point's lost on me, how many more peoples heads is it soaring over?

Examples: A picture of a lion? Girl in dress holding dog?

[jameso]

I think the point is lost if the captions aren't read? Which many don't, although it's not much to ask it does kind of undermine a lot of it if it's needed - those who DGAS in general won't GAS about reading (not aiming that at you Stuart but at the scrolls-cos-I-don't-reads type), or even see these posts.

What I saw in it was someone highlighting the effect of viral images and ideas in a responsible way that challenges the herd/mob mentality in both directions. If it's a bit extreme, well that's fairly normal, by the time someone steps up to do something they're often a bit further out in their opinions - shouldn't be that way but within reason I'll look past some of that.

Maybe I'm the odd one as I do read the captions

[Moder-dye]

I've had a look through a random handful and for all I can see what they're saying I think they're just going to create a real turn off to what they're saying with their attitude. Even I just want to give the poster a slap and say get over yourself lol!

Please note: I am currently grumpy as fk with flu, the holiday season and my bike ban so I maybe a bit over sensitive!

[Bearbonesnorm]

In my defence, I didn't really see any option to read captions. Does instagram not work on a laptop (as opposed to a phone) or is my tired old brain simply not in tune with the modern age ... every chance they're blindingly obvious and I simply missed them

EDIT: I see, click on the picture. Interesting - the Lion. I can't quite decide what the message is here. Lion was shot and killed (I remember it), public outcry, hunter goes into hiding for fear of his life. I'd have thought, the post would be saying "not surprised people were upset and angry, you shouldn't go trophy hunting Lions" but the message I'm getting is, " social media is a bad thing because it provided a stage for people to vent their anger / disgust and ultimately forced the hunter to go into hiding".

Are we trying to enlighten people to the way of LNT or have a 'pop' at the social media generation through those very same means? A very mixed, contrived and confusing message I feel.

[mechanicaldope]

Am I missing something? I can see the odd picture of rubbish, vandalism and fires but in many of the pictures, I'm failing to see what's actually wrong or the issue being highlighted. Perhaps I'm from the generation that requires, clear, easily understandable captions or explanations? I'm also thinking that if the point's lost on me, how many more peoples heads is it soaring over?



Examples: A picture of a lion? Girl in dress holding dog?

The girl with a dog one was because she was is a 'no pets' area. There is another one of the milky way which is listed because it was taken from a closed trail. Some of it is quite nit-picky. That said, some of the innocuous looking ones are probably valid; the person swimming in a pothole for example. There are no swimming signs because of unique and delicate ecosystems in the potholes that are damaged. I guess part of the problem with rules is knowing why they exist. I would obey 'no swimming' for a good reason but ignore it if it’s just for liability purposes. Maybe a brief explanatory essay should be attached to all 'no .....' signs.

[Moder-dye]

With their ethics we'd be vetting photo's to make sure no footpath was cycled on and no wild camping was done other than Scotland and a few other legal wild camping areas (amongst other things) and if not taking down posts or trolling them to shame them on social media.

There's a lot of inadvertent wildlife crime in Shetland with things like tourists photographing schedule 1 birds that is illegal. It usually done by asking people quietly to remove photos and locations. I actually had to mention it to my brother the other day when he was showing me photos and video of 'this ace bird on its nest' he came across on the cape wrath trail. A red throated diver he was a couple of feet from filming.

I think there's a tricky line to raising awareness of some issues that should be obvious and others that aren't and alienating an audience that might learn something.

[whitestone]

If the Milky Way shot was taken in the States then "Closed trail" tends to mean closed with some legal weight behind it. Americans tend to be (IME) quite hot on things like this and it does appear somewhat over-zealous from a European perspective.

@Moder-dye - red throated divers? I saw a couple on the Leeds-Liverpool canal earlier this year but I don't think they were nesting.

[Moder-dye]

@whitestone, very possibly the silly birds don't know where they're supposed to go or not go and people doing nothing wrong will just innocently come across them (various species) and take photos of the pretty birdies to put and social media with location etc without a second thought, but they can be breaking the law.

http://www.craigardcroft.com/2017/06/ph ... t.html?m=1

[jameso]

-Do something for likes or to show others - that's what IG is for.
-Don't realise that the post (in some cases, if you have 1000s of followers) can have a copycat effect - see https://www.instagram.com/insta_repeat/?hl=en for examples.
-Get called out on it, as perhaps you should if you're doing dumb or ignorant stuff - maybe realise the mistake, maybe 'DGAS'.
-Get hounded and trolled due after being called out - not positive and not the aim of the caller-outer (and part of what this account seems to be talking about in order to have a positive effect).

That last point is quite valid I think. I've refrained from commenting on a few daft posts I've seen as I'm only on IG as the TNR, not a personal account - I'm not sure if I want to get into that and cloud the TNR links. So I thought it was notable and mainly positive that some are taking these steps. There's a bit of the same challenge for them that I see in cycle-cam users I guess, by supporting and highlighting a cause you might risk or be seen as exaggerating the issues you raise in order to make a point.

Anyway ... It's only IG, 1st world problems and all that.... I just thought it was of interest, hadn't fully evaluated it tbh I don't see why we wouldn't/shouldn't highlight riders or posts showing great-looking rails that were in nature reserves or on footpaths in sensitive areas either. Magazines and bike brand ads have done daft things that have been called out and their reach may not be much greater than IG. Not getting all ethic-police here, more about an interest in how things go on social media in this area, Pandora's box stuff.

[jameso]

it does appear somewhat over-zealous from a European perspective

It could do yes. Recalling stories on here about how camp spots are abused in Scotland, anti-social behaviour in bothies, the amount of roadside littler just feet away from classic view points near me.. etc, it's the idea and use of social media here that interested me rather than the specific points made.

[Bearbonesnorm]

It could do yes. Recalling stories on here about how camp spots are abused in Scotland, anti-social behaviour in bothies, the amount of roadside littler just feet away from classic view points near me.. etc, it's the idea and use of social media here that interested me rather than the specific points made.

That is very true. Social media in all its forms is a potent weapon and as such can be a tool for both good and bad (often unwiitingly). As you say James, the thinking is good but the execution in this case may be a touch off and dare I say 'up its own arse' for the majority of the UK I pull people up reasonably often on social media and question their decisions and behaviour. Generally, it's met with a 'who put you in charge?' type resonse or something that conveys, 'and, bothered or whatever'. I tell myself the responses stem from embarrassment at being caught out in front of their peers. I always hope that while it may not alter the behaviour of those in question, it might influence that of others who see it?

I recall there's a fb page called 'Parking like a tw@t in Llanidloes' which highlights peoples shortcomings in driving and works in a similar fashion

[jameso]

That's the problem with having standards, too easy for others to brush it off as 'up yer own arse' etc : ) since defence is the simplest reaction to criticism. Agreed, it's others seeing it that are more likely to be influenced. Indirect lessons. My hand's up here, my approach to bivi campfires has changed in fairly recent years for that same reason/method.

...I wonder if we'll ever see a wish for social media 'influencers' to be those who help steer things like this, rather than posts-for-followers and shill for brands? Head above the parapet there, or holier-than-thou risks... so I doubt it.

[Bearbonesnorm]

Head above the parapet there, or holier-than-thou risks.

I do my best on both accounts

[psling]

There has to be a balance between enjoying the great outdoors and being party to destroying that very same thing. We are all guilty of doing things that can potentially damage the very thing we mentally wish to protect even though we are more aware of LNT than many. Every time we share a trail with someone, whether it be in a magazine, on social media or by passing on a gpx, we are potentially damaging that trail and its ecosystem. Every time an event sends more than just a couple of riders out along the same paths, the potential for damage or conflict is great.
But there has to be some considered balance otherwise the countryside will be out of bounds.The man-managed countryside, that is. Out of bounds so that man can manage that man-managed countryside!
We can take a lot of responsibility by our own actions; by being aware of where we make camp, removing rubbish, lighting no fires, etc. Leaving nothing but footprints - oh, the irony of that one! But equally we know that sometimes we have to 'break the rules' - pushing on through that bog, bivvying next to water, wild swimming where we shouldn't. Not advertising the fact on social media (or in marketing blurb) may appease our guilt but we still do naughty things. Occasionally. Don't we?
I can be very critical of the things some people do but sometimes I have to have a stern word with myself to calm down and consider the reasons why they are doing certain things. Whilst I can understand what that Instagram is trying to do, it just ends up with judgemental people being judgemental, however well-intentioned they believe they are.

[ScotRoutes]

Every time we share a trail with someone, whether it be in a magazine, on social media or by passing on a gpx, we are potentially damaging that trail and its ecosystem..

And we're not the worse for this. Since the first travel writers, the first travel documentaries and now constant TV a number of folk have made a very good living out of showing people some of the magnificent places and creatures we live in and with. Many of them become pious once they've "made it" of course, from Alfred Wainright to St David of Attenborough and many more.