Bikepacking on UKH

[ScotRoutes]

Whisper it but I had/have the same concerns about the HT550, especially the group start concept.

[benp1]

Is the bikepacking branding really that different to general mountain biking though?

It's always muddy and wet at some point, bikepacking generally means you're riding for longer so more chance of grim weather or trails, but how many rides on wonderful dry, dusty trails shredding the gnar?

My off road riding is a local pootle with my mate, we spend a decent amount of time just sitting on a bench and chatting (probably 2 or 3 different ones during the ride)

[ScotRoutes]

Well, there's the issue of sh1t to consider.

[PaulB2]

Well, there's the issue of sh1t to consider.

That doesn't tend to be mentioned into the marketing though.

[Bearbonesnorm]

That doesn't tend to be mentioned into the marketing though.

Strange init? There also seems to be more pictures of campfires finding their way onto social media too. I've (almost) given up mentioning that it might not be the best idea and that it's generally a selfish act ... people just shrug it off, say 'someone had used that spot for one previously' or just lie and say ' they left no trace of their towering inferno' - makes me sad.

By all means, promote bikepacking / the outdoors but do it with a sense of responsability and aim to educate whenever possible ... and if you feel unable to do that - f*ck off!*

*In no way is this aimed at the piece on UKH

[Matt]

That was a great weekend

[restlessshawn]

pictures of campfires finding their way onto social media to

Don't get me started! We often get people 'wild camping' (with a car) at the edge of our village by the river and almost without fail they decide to have a fire and burn big patches of grass because they think they are Ray Mears and someone has already killed the grass anyway...

[whitestone]

Whisper it but I had/have the same concerns about the HT550, especially the group start concept.

I understand what you mean, I suppose it applies to any group start ITT though there are only a few of those. Even on the HT550 apart from Corrimony (for the fast) and the Hydro bothy (for the very fast) bivy sites are remarkably spread out. Participants are also more likely to be of the leave no trace persuasion - I expect Craig left the Invermoriston bus shelter in a better condition than he found it for example I only had company on a bivy for the first night as well so individual spots have few people stopping.

The biggest "group start" at the moment is probably the JennRide with 170 to 200 riders heading off. I haven't heard Richard mention him getting negative feedback about everyone bivvying out and that's in a considerably more densely populated area than the Highlands. Again it could just be that the participants are more inclined to the tidier end of the spectrum.

Hopefully I'm looking at all this realistically/pragmatically rather than with rose tinted specs but appreciate that to some extent I'm on the inside of the goldfish bowl looking out. It does only take one or two people to spoil it for everyone else though.

[ScotRoutes]

I think you're right Bob. The varying speed/stamina of the participants thins out the pressure somewhat. BB200, with the staggered start, achieves a similar thing.

[ianfitz]

I think you're right Bob. The varying speed/stamina of the participants thins out the pressure somewhat. BB200, with the staggered start, achieves a similar thing.

I just had a check on the trackleaders replay. The first 12 hours sees the HT550 riders strung out between ben alder cottage 80km and Erchless castle 210km (turn for the road of a thousand puddles)

Quite a surprising variety of paces!

[whitestone]

Crikey! Didn't realise the difference in pace was that great. Just run it http://trackleaders.com/highland17 myself and by midnight there's three definite "groups": the very fast guys either closing in on the Hydro bothy or way beyond it; the fast guys around Corrimony and the main group in the FA to Invermoriston area. Midnight on the second night and the spread is from FA to Ullapool

[RIP]

Been a while since we flagged down the 'philosophy bus' on its way past .

This one - 'is following a named pre-set route actually bikepacking' - would be a good conversation card to play in The Star, rather like the philosophy sketch in Python's 'Meaning Of Life'. "Would you like me to start you off?".

Simple answer is presumably 'yes it is' because if BP is about freedom then people can do whatever they like and call it BPing. Some people on here enjoy inventing routes and other people, including expert bikepackers, enjoy riding them. There's no real chance of being swamped with those routes. Having said that I think I agree with 'Routes - following a named fixed route needs a smaller skillset and is 'easier' and BP should be about increasing a skillset and not be 'easy'?

Is following the Pennine Way still 'backpacking'? If it is, why? If not, why not?

We addressed 'what is BP' a while ago and it was fun, but there were many different conclusions some of them opposites .

If you fixed a set of BBB rules you'd lose a shedload of members certainly. Then again it might make things more focussed. Everyone(?) 'seems' to agree here that pa****r users 'aren't bikepackers' for example and we still have 1500 members, so why not 'agree' that pre-set named route users aren't either? Not saying that's my view. Maybe we should have a poll, then there's your BBB rules.

Surely without SOME 'rules' or specific particularities of identity we cannot therefore HAVE an identity or collective name?

'Reg' (People's Front Of Bikepacking).

[AlasdairMc]

Crikey! Didn't realise the difference in pace was that great. Just run it http://trackleaders.com/highland17 myself and by midnight there's three definite "groups": the very fast guys either closing in on the Hydro bothy or way beyond it; the fast guys around Corrimony and the main group in the FA to Invermoriston area. Midnight on the second night and the spread is from FA to Ullapool

It's amazing how quickly things spread out. After the second night I rarely bumped into anyone, and was able to bivi/bothy in peace every night.

One of my concerns with the publication of routes is where they feature 'suggested campsites'. The Capital Trail was pretty poor for this, because people were pitching up and starting fires in what could best be described as someone's garden - given that there was a cottage nearby and it was occupied.

[ZeroDarkBivi]

Whisper it but I had/have the same concerns about the HT550, especially the group start concept.

I understand what you mean, I suppose it applies to any group start ITT though there are only a few of those. Even on the HT550 apart from Corrimony (for the fast) and the Hydro bothy (for the very fast) bivy sites are remarkably spread out. Participants are also more likely to be of the leave no trace persuasion - I expect Craig left the Invermoriston bus shelter in a better condition than he found it for example I only had company on a bivy for the first night as well so individual spots have few people stopping.

The biggest "group start" at the moment is probably the JennRide with 170 to 200 riders heading off. I haven't heard Richard mention him getting negative feedback about everyone bivvying out and that's in a considerably more densely populated area than the Highlands. Again it could just be that the participants are more inclined to the tidier end of the spectrum.

Hopefully I'm looking at all this realistically/pragmatically rather than with rose tinted specs but appreciate that to some extent I'm on the inside of the goldfish bowl looking out. It does only take one or two people to spoil it for everyone else though.

Colin, wash your mouth out! I understand the concern, but you can’t criticise the UKs best (only?) long distance BP race! Some things are sacrosanct, and Alan has taken great care in ensuring it doesn’t turn into a mass farce.

[ScotRoutes]

Colin, wash your mouth out! I understand the concern, but you can’t criticise the UKs best (only?) long distance BP race! Some things are sacrosanct, and Alan has taken great care in ensuring it doesn’t turn into a mass farce.

As I said - it all seems to work out in practice.

[RIP]

Sorry back again but the topic is interesting. Fixed route events must be OK as BP - they're still about lightweight, handling problems, unsupported etc. But they must be a subset by definition - the fixed route is a 'restriction'. So long as FRE's don't become the BP superset then all's presumably ok.

Still stuck with the problem of "BP has no rules" but without rules/identifiers we can have no identity. Hmm.

[Bearbonesnorm]

Still stuck with the problem of "BP has no rules" but without rules/identifiers we can have no identity.

No rules certainly Reg but I'm fairly sure there are identifying traits that while not universal, are pretty common amongst many of us - often, something as simple as luggage will act as a mark of intent?

There's also the 'ride to camp' or 'camp to ride' question to consider. Something which under the surface probably 'splits' the ranks down the middle more than we'd think.

[whitestone]

There's also the 'ride to camp' or 'camp to ride' question to consider. Something which under the surface probably 'splits' the ranks down the middle more than we'd think.

Depending on what I'm doing/how I feel/who I'm with (or not)/phase of the moon I might be in either, err, camp. The fence isn't an easy place to sit you know

[psling]

I'm supposing a lot of views on this topic can come down to whether you consider 'bikepacking' a spiritual thing or a physical thing.

If it is a spiritual thing then rules aren't needed, maybe even identifying with other 'bikepackers' isn't needed. You make a conscious decision to strap kit to your bike and ride but then you (want to) become a free spirit without constraints.

If it is a physical thing then maybe it's about challenges, fitness, competing; having an identifiable style of kit carrying and kit carried; ticking off routes.

I sometimes cringe when I see requests for 'can anyone give me a gpx route here or there?', 'can anyone tell me where to bivvy on such and such a route' or indeed just expect to see these things waymarked and signposted. But then I relax and think to myself 'why does that bother me just because I'm wired differently'. And that's the crux, at the end of the day it really doesn't matter. Having said that, discussion, conversation and debate is good and differing opinions offered without conflict is healthy.

Peter [Bikepacking Peoples Front]

[Bearbonesnorm]

Giving this 'ere identity thing some thought while chopping veg and I'd like to think that this place can / does provide a degree of identity for those who want it. Although virtual, it's also very much grounded in the physical, which produces (what I feel is) a genuine community. It's not a club and it certainly isn't a commercial venture. It's a hard thing to quantify but 'family' feels nearer the mark ... Fagin's family maybe but family all the same

[middleagedmadness]

There's also the 'ride to camp' or 'camp to ride' question to consider. Something which under the surface probably 'splits' the ranks down the middle more than we'd think.[/quote]
I'm definitely in the ride to camp at the moment, not that I don't enjoy the riding but I turn into a 5yr old at the thought of sleeping in a muddy ditch ,as reg said the fun is also in the planning , although I've signed up for the LHC I've spent the last week plotting my own routes just incase there's to many lonely people , I don't know mid Wales at all but that's part of the fun seeing if my routes are rideable and if not wiping my mouth and finding another way to get where I want to , I think Stu said it's men of a certain generation where we created our own fun as kids that this type of riding /camping appeals too

[Alpinum]

'I rode the HT550'

'I did a fast tour of the Highlands'.

More can relate to the former.
Others will know where you rode through when the former was stated and be clueless if it was the latter.

Different experiences of each rider of the same route are shared. This goes for every established route, but hardly for the self sketched, unknow one. Be it during a group start or not. This too feeds the sense of a unity and thus community.

[RIP]

Ahh thanks Stuart I knew you'd be along in a minute with some wise words. Indeed it's a community with all the associated positive and negative features, but I prefer your family analogy. You don't choose some members of your family but you love 'em all the same, and if you can't love them at least you can respect their right to have their views, with a bit of luck you may even agree with some of them or slightly modify your own having heard theirs. Bloody wierd family this one though - sort of mash-up of the Addams Family, Swiss Family Robinson, Steptoe & Son, Wacky Races, and of course the Hair Bear Bunch.

[RIP]

Sorry Alpinum, I'm prepared to be the stroppy Alf Garnett of the family and I'd have to disagree. No not disagree, offer an additional option. Stick 'I bumbled my way through a WRT' as the third option on your list and I know which one would result in the widest, most interesting, most thought provoking discussions. The total lack of structure or rules and therefore the NOT knowing what/where/why/etc someone else was up to, and then hearing about it, can be very stimulating and community-forming....

But there we go again... we're both right and both wrong.. families, where would we be without 'em eh? .

[ericrobo]

I shouldn’t say it TOO LOUDLY but we do not want any commercialisation in our trampsphere...
I started walking then climbing in the Lakes ages ago when if you saw somebody on the hill (you probably knew them) you would always say how do and exchange a few words... and now it’s like Spike Milligan said about walking down Oxford St:
Nobody looks at anyone else and if you do they’re just as likely to bite your ankle ( Spike likened it to when you put too many rats in a cage: they become anti-social and bite one another)

When on North West news they report that tourism in the Lakes is booming I cringe... and that bloody ginormous garden centre coming into Ambleside..... “the spirit of the hill”

If an activity doesn’t make money they’re not interested, which is fine by me, but overcrowding is not fine by me, whether it’s tramp-packing or hill-walking or whatever.

So bringing ANY commercialisation into BP sux... I’m sorry if this clashes with any other useful opinions or viewpoints (999 different ways of skinning a cat (Chinese saying... by the way I’m very fond of cats and would not dream of eating them)

Nobody has mentioned that site MtbTrails.info:
I wonder why ? Is it run by the Russians or something, or the Mafia ?

It’s definitely not commercial.
When you do a good ride you put it on there so others can try it.
You have to make a bit of an effort using it too, whereas Tourism Scotland and the Argyll Way is all about numbers, and probably their ‘Marketing Manager’ is calculating how many cups of coffee etc. each participant consumes

Perhaps we as a community should think about using it a bit, and introduce a bit of a glossary of user friendly words: thinking of how to express a situation where, and here I refer to a real life example of a ride I’ve done a lot: from Conistone past Mossdale Scar it’s a BW totally rideable then after the hut it’s technical but still just about rideable if dryish, but when you reach the top, Sandy Gate, (it’s the border between two parishes) it becomes a footpath...

The big problem is that mountain bikers are very disorganised ( but that might be an asset) in that they scatter here there and everywhere, and if they were more organised (like the Ramblers...”you need a bell”.... me: “ I prefer to talk to people by saying ‘excuse me’ or ‘how diddy do”... reply: “you need a bell, it’s THE LAW” .... oh bollox ! (is it ?)

But the Ramblers do have a lot of clout, and we as MTBers need to be able to use old forgotten bridleways which are 3 feet down there somewhere... and don’t Local Authorities have a duty to maintain...provided there are enough voices

Yes, I don’t mind exploring at all, but I’ve wasted hours and hours in the Dales and elsewhere pushing the bloody bike along an invisible bridleway...(I’m not saying that would be the end of hike-a-bike, there are many many places where you can push your bike if you like it...)

This does go on a bit but hopefully covers a lot of points connected with tourism re bikepacking...
Don’t forget that if you spend hours driving to a venue you not want to spend hours trudging with all your gear exploring IF it’s worth following this or that track when you spend more time pushing than riding. Hence the appeal for something set out and rideable. Nor do you want to spend more than a small percentage of time using road either... using roads you can always explore, so when folks here glorify the spirit of exploration I hope they are not referring to roads (otherwise I’m going to call them roadies )

It’s bedtime for me but I’m waiting for my wounds to dry so they won’t stick to the duvet - I tried riding some rocky steps, went over the handlebars but landed on the (wooden ) fence, but totally skinned my arm... good news though my Quito jacket didn’t rip)