Higher average speed or ride longer?

[Bearbonesnorm]

Lets imagine that you were planning to ride a route, this route was a few hundred Km long and you'd like to complete it as quickly as you can (it'll obviously be a multi day affair) ... but above all you'd like to complete it.

Would you focus your efforts on trying to increase your average speed or concentrate on riding for longer?

At present my average speed certainly isn't blistering but I do have the ability to ride for long periods, ie 12+ hours without suffering unduly (I can happily do that day after day too). I know that even on day rides once the pace starts to go much above my 'natural' pace, the length of time I can ride for starts to drop quite quickly.

Thoughts anyone ? ... please don't say 'increase both'

[johnnystorm]

I can relate. My 90 min XC race pace is only a fraction faster than my 4hr pace which isn't miles off a weekend fun ride. That's a factor of me A) not being much good but also (B) moving beyond "natural" pace brings diminishing returns. Looking at Jay Petervary on his record tour divide he was averaging "only" 8mph or so (?) but for 20+ hours a day! Better to grind out a comfy pace rather than thrash yourself & then need a lie in afterwards?

[Ray Young]

Ride for longer at a sustainable pace is my opinion. I think increasing your pace will make you need more fuel to sustain the pace, it will be psychologically harder, it will make you feel more tired the next day and riding difficult terrain at speed when your tired will be much harder. None of this is based on scientific fact of course, just what I think from previous experience .

[restlessshawn]

When I've toured on road I've ridden some long days at the same steady pace I useually bimble around at. Trying to go faster I'd be done after day one*. I'd much rather go at an enjoyable pace for longer therby still enjoying myself.

*I can't go fast anyway

[gairym]

over the last year i've worked on (marginally) increasing my average speed but on an actual trip it's all about riding at a comfortable pace for as long as possible for me.

i use the training time to work on increasing that comfortable pace but i never push it when i need to get somewhere.

[Ian]

Tortoise vs hare. It's not so much the difference in speed, its just that the tortoise didn't stop.

Go for riding longer, but look at any/ all ways you can minimise your stopped time. You never get back the time you spent stationary.

On my GPS I have the display set to riding time (i.e. time actually moving), and total time (i.e. since the ride started). The game is to keep both as close to each other as possible. I find it a good motivator to keep riding.

[jameso]

On my GPS I have the display set to riding time (i.e. time actually moving), and total time (i.e. since the ride started). The game is to keep both as close to each other as possible

Good point.. minimising faff time is worth many hours of hill training )

I've been reading up on all this again recently, used a HRM and a training book once but hardly used it again after a spring of painful, dull rides.
From what I understand - If you have a base, as it sounds like you have, you need to work hard on cardio to be able to raise the average speed that you can maintain at a heart rate zone that is sustainable as endurance effort rather than XC race pace. ie if you can go all day at 10mph / 120bpm (or whatever it is at a lower zone or % of max?), you raise your efficiency with intervals or similar training over say 8 weeks, then you can do 12mph at 120bpm all day, it shouldn't feel any more difficult. Interesting point about Jay Petervary's record stats - sounds like the pace of many 24hr riders, maybe less - but maintainable by him for >2 weeks.

If you only ever ride 6-12hrs of 10mph / 120bpm, that's all you'll ever do and doing more of it can increase fatigue.
And that's where I'm stuck at the mo, not sure whether I need to 'slow down to speed up' for a while then do the hill reps later, or mix the 2 in blocks, etc. A post on STW got some info but I'm no clearer on whether there are any rules of what to do when for endurance multi-dayers. Joe Friel's book keeps getting reccomended so I've got a copy on the way.

A "Bikepacker's training" thread next? Shudder.. sounds a bit serious to me. But I have done ok in recent years by following tips on how to make fun rides work for your fitness, it doesn't have to be all triathlete-type A stuff.

Any training experts on here?

[adjustablewench]

I'm in the pootle along at a steady pace for as long as possible - and I know I can do long days.

However my daughter did buy me a heart rate monitor for christmas - ive got as far as scaring mself with a heart rate of 193bpm on my 21 min ride home from work. I may perseve but I cant imagine how slow id have to ride to get 120bpm!

[Chew]

If your're riding multiday, the only way to do that is at your 'natural' pace, otherwise you'll quickly fatigue, and ultimatley it'll catchup with you at some point.

There are only so many hours you can ride in a day unless you can cope with minimal sleep. So like Ian says its about maximising that time. IIRC the reason Ian reduced this years BB200 time wasnt by particulary riding any faster, just stopping less. 10% less stopped time will be easier to achieve than increasing your pace by 10%.

After that it's just a case of trying to increase your natural pace, which i'm sure is why Ian is getting in the miles now ahead of the HTR

Depends on if your racing or touring?

[Ian]

scaring mself with a heart rate of 193bpm on my 21 min ride home from work. I may perseve but I cant imagine how slow id have to ride to get 120bpm!

I think women tend to have higher heart rates than men. Besides that, it's not the heart rate value that is important as such, it is the level at which blood lactate reaches a certain threshold.

IIRC the reason Ian reduced this years BB200 time wasnt by particulary riding any faster, just stopping less.

The gain was two hours: approx 40 mins from riding faster (though ground conditions were tougher than previous year, so in theory this could have been more) and 1hr 30 mins from stopping less. I would add that it was paced very specifically (though at times quite badly) for a single push to better last years time, and I wasn't fit for much at the end. Multi-day rides will, I'm fairly sure, require a different approach. Ask me again after the HTR...

[FLV]

I think if you already have the ability to ride for extended period, and are activly fighting the faff factor then the logical step at some point is to try to increase the pace.
I would guess trying to do this in short steps would be key to ensure no loss of stamina?

Personally, I need to nail down the long ride first as I'm not where I need (want) to be yet for the HTR. I know I could tour the route but thats not what its about.
I completed the BB200 in 27 hours but due to a light failure and a few mistakes I couldnt ride through the majority of the night, my moving time was just under 18 hours. I've got several trips planned to make sure I dont repeat the same mistakes.

Finding the time and motivation to put the hours in on the bike are the biggest challenges in the current climate!