Bikepacking problem

[gairym]

Morning all,

I was chatting with Stu, Chew and Andy whilst riding the Torino-Nice Rally and while we were discussing various sleeping options and our own personal preferences etc... I hit upon an issue (problem?) I've got which I'd thought I'd share here to see if we can't cure me of this ailment.....

The problem, in a nutshell, is this:

I love camping, I absolutely love sleeping out under the stars but..... after a long day in the saddle (more than about 6 hours) my resolve to sleep wild wanes and I want nothing more than a comfy bed and a good nights sleep.

The idea of battling fatigue, refusing to give-in to temptation and maintaining the purity of bikepacking is all there at the beginning of a trip but my priorities change after a long (or many long) day(s) and I can't quite bring myself to give a shiny sh*t about 'integrity' when the warm glowing light of cheap accommodation rears it's comfy head of a evening.

From the distant comfort of home I long for the challenge (and I do relish the physical challenge of riding big miles in big hills) but my desire to 'do it properly' flies out of the window after a couple of days and I don't even feel bad about it. Then, once home, I think about how I could have easily just gotten on with it, braved the cold, endured the piss-poor sleep and persevered but by then it's too late.

I was saying to someone (Chew?) that I really don't think I could ever do the Tour Divide or something similar as I just don't have the single-minded drive to put all other desires aside and focus on achieving that goal at any cost.

So what should I do?

One thing I think I should do is admit, once and for all, that tarps and bivi bags aren't for me. I love the idea but the reality is that I sleep terribly (if at all) and that fatigue builds over multiple days and my (already pathetic) pace slows even further without sufficient rest. I'll be taking my tent more often as it's barely heavier and allows for at the least the chance of a half-decent sleep.

But other than a slightly more appealing camping option I'm not sure how to get past this?

Am I just a bit of a wimp? I want to enjoy these trips as surely that's the point, no?

I dunno, I'm beginning to ramble but hopefully you get my point and maybe some of this resonates with a few of you who might have some words of wisdom to offer.

I'm coming over for the BB200 in a couple of weeks and I'd like to get my head in the right place before then.

Cheers, Gairy.

[benp1]

If someone offered you your exact sleeping set up, ready set up, so you could stop riding and get into it straight away, would that do the job?

If it's a yes then I'd say you need to look at your set up

If it's a no then how it's a mindset I guess

Would it change if it was a bothy?

I've not done a trip over 2 nights so can't say how I would act in the same place. Bikepacking is usually an escape for me so I welcome the outdoorsy nature of the sleeping, but for a more-than-2 night trip, say 5 days, I don't know how I'd feel - I love coming home for a nice shower

[mountainbaker]

Think less, ride harder, sleep faster.

[ScotRoutes]

Admit it, you're a tourer.

Hey, it's supposed to be enjoyable. Do what you want to do and stop feeling coerced into what other folk consider adventure.

[jamiep]

This is why I never go for trips longer than 3 days / 2 nights. At home, I sleep restlessly for about 6 hours and wake up a bit tired. Out (tent, bivi, bunkhouse, bothy, whatever), I 'sleep' for 1-2 hours and am destroyed the next day, then repeat. I've actually not bothered this year because of that

edit: I have nice gear so it is not that. PHD bag and NeoAir XLite mat

[Cheeky Monkey]

Find what makes you happy and do that, IMO. Expectations or assumptions about anything else don't really matter, do they? WGAF about anything else, within reason.

It's a hobby and should make you happy or add / enrich your life. If going all hair-shirt and "hardcore" about bivying doesn't work for you find your workable alternative / compromise. You say:

I'll be taking my tent more often as it's barely heavier and allows for at the least the chance of a half-decent sleep

If that makes your trips then just do it. Can';t see any problem really

[Bearbonesnorm]

I'm not entirely convinced it's the lure of a good nights sleep and wonder whether it might be more to do with 'general comfort' ... hot meal, pleasant surroundings, access to the web and beer

As everyone else has said, there's no right or wrong ... however, if the choices you're making out there are making you 'unhappy' once you return, then as you say, maybe have a look at your kit and make some alterations. I've spent all week kipping in a bivvy bag because I enjoy it, not because I think I should

[Mariner]

Have you tried any of the long distance events that arrange accommodation and shift your gear?
Personally I enjoy the challenge of stealth camping.
Can I have first dips on the PHD if you decide to sell?

[Moder-dye]

I'm certainly guilty of negatively comparing my efforts against those heroes who do super long days, sleep in ditches for 20 minutes and carry on for days or weeks and seem to lap it up.

Rather than beat myself up for my woe full efforts I'm trying to realise that I'm just not that capable and also that I'm not really so sure I really want to do that.

What do I want out of it?
I want to enjoy a time away. I want to ride (or walk) in some cool places. I want to be away from 'the hordes' and camp in a nice location. I want to challenge myself, but not unduly. So for me a few days is plenty and 6 or 7 hours cycling a day is plenty too. And if I feel the need to pamper myself after a couple of damp, long, midge days with a B&B room and a sit down meal (like the end of my last trip), what the hell I've earned it. I've had a good time and done so much more than any of the people I'm around in everyday life that's for sure.

I struggle with poor sleep at home and suffer from it . I love camping, but camping I suffer worse. Camping and long days cycling is worse again and the ability to function gets even worse as days add up. I do have other health issues though that contribute to it. I always plan an extra day after the trip before work to get some sort of sleep/CNS recovery to be able to function.

Saying that I want to do a version of the NC500 next year which with going via Orkney to Scrabster and back to Aberdeen will end up being some way over the 800km mark. I'll probably plan to take around 7 days and be B&Bing it rather than camping to minimise that cumulative fatigue I get from poor sleep alone. It'll be my longest 'trip' so I'm wanting to be realistic and I'll probably have to take some leave from work afterwards too to recover.

I guess I'd say to do it to a level that challenges you, but that you can still enjoy (even in if in a type 2 way occasionally) and not to worry about coming up to the standards of what some on here and elsewhere are capable off (the swines!) in terms of hardship and distance.

P.S. I really enjoy wild camping, always have, my body just doesn't respond well.

[Cheeky Monkey]

Depends what you put your poor sleep down to (or what combo of factors). If it's comfort have you considered a hammock. Comfiest thing in the world, IMO. A bit heavier than a tarp and bivy set-up, though maybe not significantly so, depending on what you spend / pick. You need two trees (obviously ) but, despite what some people fret about, I've never found it an issue.

Just a thought

[ianfitz]

It is what it is. There's no rules about not being able to sleep in certain places. I aimed to get to 'shelter' every night during the HT550. Slept in bothies (x2) barn (x1) and enjoyed a one hour bivy during the last night. I have good kit too, and trust it plus the weather was good throughout. I finished way, way ahead of where I thought possible and have no regrets about the style of the ride - I rode it for me anyway!

Its your ride. Ride it your way. So what if someone else does something different. If you enjoy big days out and comfortable lodgings then theres plenty of scope for incredible trips to be put together.

oh, and theres a lot of motel options along the TD route so you shouldn't rule it out just yet

[Trail-rat]

maybe im odd , but i sleep better out in the wild - so long as im warm - id rather have too much sleeping bag than too little.

One thing i dont do well is function on little sleep though im certianly not going to win any bikepacking events i like my sleep too much.

ive fallen asleep on my bike at more than 1 24 hour race :D

[Chew]

In all honesty Gairy, I dont think its really an issue with kit. Its probably a disconnect between Desire and Execution.

You need to ponder what you can achieve and plan a trip aligning to that, or what you want to achieve and build up to it prior to going away.


My concern for you, is if you go to Finland, its a place where you need to be committed. They'll be no easy (cheap) bailout options, hotels, wine and in those conditions nature will make sure you suffer for any issues.

[gairym]

Thanks all, seems I'm not the only one and lots to think about....

In all honesty Gairy, I dont think its really an issue with kit. Its probably a disconnect between Desire and Execution.

Absolutely!

My issue with the kit is that I pack for my desire before an event and not for the desire I (now accept that I'll) have after a long days riding.

My concern for you, is if you go to Finland, its a place where you need to be committed. They'll be no easy (cheap) bailout options, hotels, wine and in those conditions nature will make sure you suffer for any issues.

To be honest I'm not worried about this. Given a no choice situation I'll happily (and have numerous times) just get on with it, dig deep, do what needs to be done and be happier because of it.

It's when I've got the easy-out option that I struggle.

Have you tried any of the long distance events that arrange accommodation and shift your gear?

No, I hate the idea. I'm sure I'd enjoy the reality of it if I did one but it's just not bikepacking is it?

Admit it, you're a tourer.

Hey, it's supposed to be enjoyable. Do what you want to do and stop feeling coerced into what other folk consider adventure.

Maybe I am???

Though I think they camp more than I do!

I agree totally that it's supposed to be fun and it is (often type II but that's cool too). It's just that, as Chew mentioned, the prior desire and then the fatigued desire do not align in any way, shape or form.

If someone offered you your exact sleeping set up, ready set up, so you could stop riding and get into it straight away, would that do the job?

If it's a yes then I'd say you need to look at your set up

If it's a no then how it's a mindset I guess

It would depend on how well I'll sleep. All I want is an easy and good night's rest after a long day in the saddle.

Find what makes you happy and do that, IMO. Expectations or assumptions about anything else don't really matter, do they? WGAF about anything else, within reason.

I agree and it's not like a give two hoots what anyone else thinks but it's more that tired me doesn't agree with pre-ride me and the end result is that one of us wins/loses (the one who's tired and grumpy wins usually).

I'm not entirely convinced it's the lure of a good nights sleep and wonder whether it might be more to do with 'general comfort' ... hot meal, pleasant surroundings, access to the web and beer

I agree and disagree. My favourite and worst night of our recent endeavour was the silly cold night out at 2000m alt.

I loved it and that'll be the night I remember long term but I barely slept and it killed me the next day (and massively contributed to me heading home as I was exhausted and the thought of more riding in that state did not appeal in the slightest and so the lack of time became a convenient reason to quit).

I'll use gadgets and comforts if they're there but a lot of the time you saw me on my phone I was reading my book. Also, I talk big about beer but I never l let it get in the way of the riding of a trip - it's just not worth the suffering.

All,

Thinking about it, I'm not so worried about the BB200 as it's its own thing, a unique beast and there's not much to be done other than MTFU and get on with it.

I suppose it's the other multi-day events that are bothering me.

I don't see how tired me will ever resist the pull of the lazy/easy option once I'm knackered, sweaty and beaten???

I do (from the safety of a sofa) want to suffer and achieve something to be proud of but in the fatigue of the moment I'll likely keep bailing when the going gets tired.

[fatbikephil]

Likewise, even when I've got my tent if the weather looks iffy. I don't beat myself up over it as I'm on holiday so its supposed to be enjoyable. Also I've camped in a variety of places in a variety of foul weather and horrendous midges so I have nothing to prove. Its supposed to be fun - do what you have to do to make it so.

[slarge]

Agree with all the above, you should look at what you enjoy, and do that. Don't beat yourself up over not wanting to sleep under a tarp, if a tent is good use that. If a B&B is good then use that. You are the reason you do this stuff, so you only have your own expectations to live up to.

[Dan_K]

Just do what makes you happy Gairy and who cares what people think or what you should be doing.
I love the idea of bivvying and sleeping out under the stars but most of the trips I do are with a tent. I still think I "bike pack" as I take the bare minimum that I can get away with.
Last weekend was the first multi-day trip that I went on, solely with a bivvy bag for shelter. First day was fine but the second day ended in torrential rain. If there had been a hostel option, I'd have taken it but in the end, we opted for a campsite, tumble dryer and I shared a tent with 2 mates.
A bit of discomfort is ok but why be miserable to satisfy someone else?

As an aside, Normandy is vaguely exciting. Trip report to follow when my mate forwards the photos...

[ZeroDarkBivi]

I wouldn't get a downer about the camping thing - it can be a great experience, but it can also just be unnecessary misery! Whilst I was prepared to bivi on TNR, I ended up staying in refuges every night, not by plan, but because they where just in the right place at the right time, and given the option of a hot meal and improved quality recovery, it was an easy, guilt-free decision for me. Just go with the flow!

It is definitely logistically easier if you are riding as a pair, as you can then share the camping gear and can carry a proper tent, cooking kit, etc, without over-loading your bike.

[Cheeky Monkey]

Maybe you just aren't fit enough and don't have the mental fibre for it? A bit like eyes bigger than your belly?

Not being nasty, but some folks are fit buggers with a pretty bloody minded attitude. If you aren't but are using them and their trips as your point of reference then maybe that's a cause of some of this angst?

No offence, just throwing it out there

[ScotRoutes]

I do (from the safety of a sofa) want to suffer and achieve something to be proud of

Read that back a few times.

Consider what your friends and acquaintances are up to.

Realise that even the "softest " option is beyond most folks understanding or experience.

Stop measuring yourself against an infinitely small hard-core.

Be happy.

[Mart]

I was thinking I would write something, but after rereading the above comments don't think I can add more. As long as your happy with what you do that's all there is to it

Let it be what you want it to be and make sure your smiling at the end (If your not smiling then your doing something wrong)

[Ray Young]

Do it your way Gairy, life's too short to do stuff you don't enjoy. You'll be faster too carrying less gear .

[HaYWiRe]

I sleep quite well outdoors, a bit of cold or wet never bothered me but if I wake up to find any crawlies sharing my bed with me I'm up, packed and doing "the dance" before ive even fully awoken, call me soft but bugs are where I draw the line

I also find I sleep better after multiple long days because the more tired you are the less you care and ultimately pass out the second you lay.

Ive bugged out on trips though, cut short because of weather or fitness. No harm done, I do this to be happy and get away from other stresses. Second this becomes stressful I walk away. No guilt here!

Something that might help you sleep outside better is looking into why you don't sleep well at home either? While you said camping makes the issue more severe it probably isn't the core issue itself. Something worth pondering.

Oh, and seriously get a hammock, best nights sleep ive ever had and I've never even taken one touring! Just get one for the garden, every home needs one!

[gairym]

Whilst I was prepared to bivi on TNR, I ended up staying in refuges every night, not by plan, but because they where just in the right place at the right time, and given the option of a hot meal and improved quality recovery, it was an easy, guilt-free decision for me.

That's cool and I often do exactly that and it's not as though I feel bad when I do it, at that moment it's 100% what i want to do but.....

It's before and after an event that I'd rather be a little more hardcore and rough it.

You are the reason you do this stuff, so you only have your own expectations to live up to.

That's the problem, it's my expectations that I'm not living up to!

Maybe you just aren't fit enough and don't have the mental fibre for it? A bit like eyes bigger than your belly?

Ouch!

Only kidding, fitness is certainly a factor. I can do big days but I am broken by the end and so setting up camp etc... is much less appealing than if I was feeling fresh.

As for the mental fibre bit.....I'll happily dig deep if I have to but given a choice I'll simply decide i want sleep more than integrity at a certain fatigue level.

Consider what your friends and acquaintances are up to.

Realise that even the "softest " option is beyond most folks understanding or experience.

Stop measuring yourself against an infinitely small hard-core.

Be happy.

Where I live I'm about as soft as it gets. I'm surrounded by extreme sports lunatics, endurance legends and all round sports nuts.

My problem isn't not measuring up to anyone elses standards, it's not measuring up to my own!

Thanks all for the 'do it your own way' sentiments and I completely agree but, as I hope I've managed to make clear, it's me and my expectations that aren't in alignment with my decisions once I'm on the road/trail.

To be honest there are only two things to be done.

1. Plan for and expect less of myself.

or.....

2. MTFU, keep on truckin' and don't give in to temptation.

Let's see how I do at the BB200 and take it from there.

Cheers all, Gairy.

[Bearbonesnorm]