Surly Knard and Rabbit Hole - anyone?

[Bearbonesnorm]

Restlessnatives 69er thread got me thinking, which lead me to wonder what a 29er would be like with a Surly Rabbit Hole 50mm rim and Knard 3" tyre on the front.

They're now available in Europe ... anyone gonna give it a go ?

[Mart]

Saw Taz over at Cannock had done this on Jones frame with truss forks
I was surprised it fitted but it did. need to have plenty clearance on your frame

[FLV]

am I right in thinking that tyre fits on normal rims too? presumably it would be overly tall though

[restlessshawn]

I like your thinking stu, should fit in your enabler fork I'd have thought

[Bearbonesnorm]

am I right in thinking that tyre fits on normal rims too? presumably it would be overly tall though

I think Surly say 35mm rim as a minimum width.

I like your thinking stu, should fit in your enabler fork I'd have thought

Aye, plenty of room in there.

[jameso]

Load of pics on Jones blog about this. Looks useful. My next front wheel will be a 50mm rim, probaly a Knard while I'm at it. I have 35mm rims already but the volume-to-weight seems worth going the whole 29+ hog. No real interest in a heavy full-fat front, would go for a full fat bike if I needed that, but Ardent 2.4 on P35 rims is a brilliant combo for loaded riding so why not see how far you can go?

[Bearbonesnorm]

I've just been looking at a Kris Holm 29" freeride rim, 48mm wide and 750g(ish). Looks like it might mate up to a Knard tyre quite well.

If I try it, I'll have to find another bike, I can swap F+R wheels straight over on my orange Inbred which I won't be able to do if I stick a silly wheel/tyre on the front. The green Inbred could be a goer but I'll have to measure the clearance in the forks. Surly say the fitted tyre will be 78mm wide x 780mm total diamiter

[johnnystorm]

Steve Worland's Pacenti looks spot on with a similar set up.

http://m.flickr.com/#/photos/87509584@N06/8144875329/

[Adrian Brewster]

I've been drooling over the KH rim too, where did you find it, only place I've found is Unicycledotcom but web site says they have sold out. Looks like a good deal.

[Bearbonesnorm]

where did you find it, only place I've found is Unicycledotcom but web site says they have sold out. Looks like a good deal.

I couldn't find any in stock in the UK but Google brought some up in the US.

[Adrian Brewster]

I emailed Roger at Unicycle dot com:
"Hi
Will you be getting 29" Kris Holm 'Freeride' Rim back in stock any time soon?
Thanks
Adrian

Adrian,
We have them on order and hope to have them soon, although the date of delivery has not been confirmed. We do have the Nimbus one in stock, although not quite as wide it is stronger.

Regards
Roger

Hi Roger
Thanks for that. not as strong is alarming, hoping to use for non unicycle duties as front wheel on 29er with Surly knard "29 plus" tyre for off road bikepacking with rigid fork, ultralight camping gear and cautious, nay timid, riding style. Considering what Kris Holm does with one wheel, it would seem two wheels sharing the load would be well within capabilities but maybe I'm missing something here. This is mostly because I'm too mean to afford Surly rabbit hole rims.
Any thoughts?
Thanks

Hi Adrian,

The KH rims are great, they are designed to be light and wide, to get that you will sacrifice something... strength. Compared with other 29" rims you are right, they are some of the best out there. The Nimbus rim is not quite as wide though, its basic construction makes it a better rim than the KH, it has a deeper section and better internal design. Here is the link where it is fully described:
http://www.unicycle.uk.com/rim29nimbusdominator2.html
we also have it in blue:
http://www.unicycle.uk.com/nimbus-muni- ... -blue.html

The Surly works great on the Nimbus, it locks on to the bead section very well. Here is the review of the unicycle with the Surly rim on , it is what we did the testing with (we were one of the companies selected to test the tyre for Surly)
http://www.unicycle.uk.com/blog/staff-u ... %e2%80%b2/

As you can see from the review, the test bicycle unicycle is actually using the KH XC rim which is actually narrower than the Nimbus one.


Hi Roger
Interesting! The nimbus rims could be good; only 5mm skinnier, only 123g heavier, £21 quid cheaper, fits the knard and it's stronger.
I'll have to think about this some more.
Regards

What do you think? Really fancy knard tyre but skint as ever so should I just save up for the rabbit hole, go for the Nimbus or wait for the KH. The KH rim on my 26 Muni is fab which sort of nudges me in that direction. There is only 204g difference between rabbit hole (699g) and Nimbus (903g), my beer gut will have grown by more than that in the time it will take to deliver the Knard or I guess there is some technical reason for trying to shave as much weight off the wheels as possible. Any thoughts?

[FLV]

a 900g rim...

I dont like to use anything except crests....

[Bearbonesnorm]

Logic says built the lightest wheel you can ... but in this instance logic has less to do with it I think asthetics and cost are the main points. I'm sure either rim will be up to the job strength wise.

[Adrian Brewster]

Rim weight is less of an issue as my warped logic is chasing a little of that fatbike feeling (a very slightly overweight but not morbidly obese bike). Rotational effect (gyro) is bigger in heavier wheel, slightly less effort to keep bike upright on rough stuff. Heavier wheels keep rolling although it takes a little more effort to get them rolling, it takes less energy to keep them rolling. The cons of a heavier wheel are outweighed (hmm) by the pros of fat(ish) tyre suspension effect, low pressure, wide tyre flows, deforms over smaller holes, stones. Seems counterintuitive but higher volume, wider tyres have less rolling resistance off road, less deep ruts with short wide footprint (pace fatbike forum or something, I forget.) Any ways, I guess you know all this stuff.
The bike is also intended for packrafting so needs to cope with bog, quag and a bit of extra float for sand (and water sometimes). I'll keep an eye out for some 50mm wide crests but meanwhile, you're right, aesthetics counts, I'll wait for the KH rims unless someone can suggest something that's affordable and better.

[jameso]

I'd say Adrian's on the right track, rim weight is worth noting but rolling resistance is lower off-road if you can use lower pressures, a bigger footprint from a wider rim means lower pressures can be used. Light rims are great for road bikes and XC racers, for loaded rigid bikes that get ridden by tired riders over less-groomed trails, a wider rim and tyre makes a lot of sense to me.
A 900g rim is heavy, but a loaded bike never accelerates uphill very fast anyway. It may roll along easier and save more energy in the long run if matched to a big tyre at under 20psi. All so variable though.

[FLV]

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid= ... =1&theater

Aparently, knard works on flow EX rims.

[royAB]

Anyone got a Knard to hand & be good enough to give me some actual measurements?
(Working on the tandem design - http://bearbonesbikepacking.co.uk/phpBB ... lit=tandem - and don't trust manufacturers measurements:

On a 29mm wide rim
Knob Shoulder Width (essentially the widest bit) - quoted 74mm.
Max Casing Width - 71.0

On a 50mm wide rim
Knob Shoulder Width - quoted 77mm.
Max Casing Width - 75.0

Thanks in advance

[Adrian Brewster]

Like some pacific island cargo cult I'm still praying to the great God Surly to deliver a Knard. Looks like it"s going to be some time late April. Wonderful Bothy bikes in Aviemore did have a demo Krampus, email davidatbothybikesdotcodotuk he may be able to take a tape measure to it. The tandem sounds wow!

[firedfromthecircus]

I have a pair of Nimbus Dominator rims on my Karate Monkey ss, and I have not found the extra weight to be that much of a negative. Running on 36 hole Hope hubs the wheelset is really bombproof.

I hold the theory that light weight is for racing snakes and the extreme adventurers who can afford to pay for strong and light. Me, I'm no racing snake so i prefer strong and cheap.

Added to that, the extra momentum carried in a heavier wheel can be a real bonus. Yes, it takes more effort to get it rolling, but it really wants to keep rolling, and I like that. I have to point out that I also ride a Moonlander though, so the Monkey feels like a TdF bike in comparison. :D
The 42mm rim width makes a fair bit of difference in tyre width and gives a lot of extra cushion, and I am comfortably running about 10psi lower than before.

I have had a shot of a Krampus, and the 29+ wheels and tyres are nice, but not current prices nice! I don't even know what the rims cost on their own, but the tyres are £95 a pop I think, and given the £1100 kit price, if you take the frameset at an expensive £600 then that makes the rims a whole lot of wedge!

As soon as Surly drops them to half the current price I'll buy a set.

[royAB]

Cheers Adrian. I'll get a mail off to David