Drivetrain; 1x or compact double ?

[Sarah]

I am sure this has been discussed, but not been on for a bit.....

I have had my Surly Ogre for a year now and took her into the shop today as mech was impossible to adjust and I was loosing the will to live. Drive and all other components on her are 6+ years old and well used off my old bike, plan has always been to replace as worn out, and now its happened.

So, looking for something reasonable quality [XT level I think] for rough/off road touring in UK, Europe, Morocco and possibly further East in next year or three.

Do I go for a 1x or compact double ? both give the low gear I need cos I am a bit wimpy on hills , similar pricepoint. Allegedly both pretty robust etc.

Would very much appreciate any suggestions/advice/tales etc.

Thanks in advance

Sarah

[Bearbonesnorm]

http://bearbonesbikepacking.blogspot.co ... oaded.html The advent of larger cassettes has levelled the playing field since I wrote this but it's still largely relevant.

If you dislike the hills then why not simply fit a 22/32 (or 24 or perhaps 36) up front? Not 'on trend' in many eyes but those folk aren't riding it.

[whitestone]

Even as a 1x advocate/fan boi/whatever I'd go for the 2x setup in your circumstances.

[Sarah]

Thanks Whitestone. Can I ask why ?

I'm certainly not looking for or worrying about trend [whatever that currently is, no clue] just practical and cost effective function.

[Bearbonesnorm]

worrying about trend [whatever that currently is

It's the stuff the bikeshop are most likely wanting to sell you. If you're really not bothered ... stick a triple on.

[whitestone]

Thanks Whitestone. Can I ask why ?

I'm certainly not looking for or worrying about trend [whatever that currently is, no clue] just practical and cost effective function.

You lose some range, not a lot, about three ratios when compared with a 2x setup. I rarely use the cogs at either end of the range but that's me. Occasionally, when very tired, I wish for a lower gear or two. It does take time to get used to the 1x setup which you may not appreciate.

A 2x setup is obviously more expensive because you need the extra shifter and mech - there's not a lot of difference between 1x and 2x chainsets.

[Sarah]

Thanks. They ran the maths at the bike shop, lower gears still came up about the same with both options.

Price wasnt significantly different; 280 vs 310 I think. Its all sticker shock at that point.

I am more concerned about durability and robustness I think.

Good point about bike shop selling what they carry, I am no trend setter, too old and grumbly for that.

[fatbikephil]

1x with a 26 or 28t ring. RF aeffect cranks are good and can be had cheap of fleabay (mine was £90 inc ring and BB plus other rings can be had for £30 from works components). For a cassette go with a sunrace 11-42 - £40 of the bay and they seem to last as long as shimano. You'll be able to keep your 10 speed shifter and it will work with a new XT 11 speed mech.

[jamiep]

1* with 26 or 28 chainring? How? You mean 36 or 38 Shirley? (Or I'd say even 30 or 32)

[ZeroDarkBivi]

Big fan of 1x, as it just works, always; no chain falling off when shifting, fiddling with the front mech cable adjuster or really annoying chain suck when it's a bit muddy. When you look at how many people successfully go bikepacking on singlespeed, why do you need 20+ (hugely overlapping) gears? 1x11 worked fine for me (10-42, with a 28 chainring); plenty low enough, and when I (rarely) span out the top gear, have a little rest for a few seconds! Now using 1x12, which has all the range you could ask for, but it is a bit pricey and I expect it to wear quicker. Also a fan of oval chainrings, not for traction (I think that is a myth), but they just make the low cadence grind a bit easier.

[Sarah]

Just found my notes from the shop; 32T 11-42 although could get 11-46. All a bit double speak to me, does it sound low, like lots-of-Grannies low ?

[whitestone]

I would have said I've not had any problems with my 1x setups but last week I got a jammed chain and took a flyer on the canal tow path resulting in a trip to A&E The rear mech had done more than 9000Km though.

I'm running 32T oval with 11-40 which is good enough for the Dales, Lakes and Scotland *for me*. My fat bike has 28T (direct mount Aeffect) oval with a Sunrace11-42 cassette which is the same bottom gear as a traditional 3x9 setup

[Pirahna]

Some of you might find this useful: http://www.bikecalc.com/gear_inches

[Alpinum]

1 x 12.
Less faff, way less shifting than 2 or 3 by.
Less weight, more quiet, no lack of precision and rattling up front as there is only one.

Some call it trend, some call it evolution.

I've dropped the chain once when going bonkers in seriously rought terrain in the Alps with Sram Eagle. I used to drop it much more often on 1 x 11 or 1 x 10 hacks with second party gear.
The 1 x 11 hacks with second party gear will work okay, but Sram's 1 x 12 has an edge that can be felt when riding next to less chain drops with smoother and faster transition.

Some believe the narrower chain leads to less durability, but there more to the chain than just width, same goes with the teeth of the chainring. The whole 1 x 12 drivetrain was designed as one system.

Now idea how much the new Sram GX Eagle costs, but 10-50 teeth is a huge difference to 11-42 or 11-46. The plain numbers don't do justice to the difference you feel when riding.

That said, Sram GX 1 x 11 is in my point of view the next best option for a not too expensive setup. 10 t is bloody small but is quite a game changer compared to 11 t. I got the best performance when running full Sram - not mixing up different brands.

[Bearbonesnorm]

Given the virtually overwhelming call in favour of 1 x, I should say that many of my bikes are set up like this, however 'what type of drivetrain are you running?' wasn't the original question

[ctznsmith]

I would buy a 2x system with an 11/34 and a 24 small at the front*.

Why?
- If you find 24 x 34 too high a gear you can stil drop the gearing at both front and rear.
(I've never looked at 10 but on Shimano 11 speed you can run a 11-42 cassette with a double I believe)

- If you break your rear mech you can still have two manual gears. If you break your front mech you have 1x

- If you decide actually 1x would have been better it's easier to remove sell bits. Or even temporarily to try it.

*full disclosure: this is actually what I run but in 9 speed, which limits your options for lowering the gears if required.

[Gari]

Just for balance I ride 1x at home on all my bikes. However, if I am going somewhere I feel would need more range I simply put an inner ring on. No front mech etc, I basically use it as 1x11 in my case, with a low(inner ring) set for bigger hills, higher(outer ring) for the flatter stuff. Mainly on the outer ring, push to the inner for steeper stuff, when catching breath/drinking etc at the top just pop back on to outer by hand, if required. Simples.

[Pat]

Some good advice here...I run aeffect 30t oval and 11-36 on my trek stache, which gets me up everything , although massively steep stuff I sometimes have to stand up (and wish for a smaller gear!). My spearfish is 2x with 36/26 front and 11-36 rear, which is much easier and brilliant when running correctly.
I think if I had one choice, I would have the 30t oval and a 11-42 sunrace .....which I'll be doing when the stache cassette wears out, I think.

[dlovett]

2x10 or 2x11. 36/22 11/42 Goes up anything and you can happily spin when others are slogging. The top end actually gives you enough speed to piss of Roadies and out run 1x owners!!

[ScotRoutes]

It never ceases to amaze me how many folk can't set up a front mech.

[In Reverse]

As a fellow Ogre rider (and huge fan) I'd stick with a Deore triple. The Ogre's a heavy, tough bike and it really doesn't warrant the slight saving in weight and marginal increase in shifting finesse that an XT drivetrain would bring. Deore is chunkier and more robust too. There's a reason Surly choose them for the bike's original spec. I say this as someone who slavishly has XT everything on all my other MTBs.

I'd stick with the triple just for the increased range at both ends - I rarely use the extremities but it's nice to have them when I do. Also because I'd be surprised if your shifters really need changing.

You can get both mechs, cassette, chainrings, bottom bracket and chain off Chain Reaction for just under £140. I'd hope your LBS could do the same, fitted, for about £160 - 170.

[ericrobo]

This may help to get some perspective on it.

Assuming 29inch wheels and 1 chain wheel say with 30teeth, and a cassette which contains a 30tooth sprocket:

In that gear how far would you travel with one revolution of the pedals ?
Well, it's the circumference of the wheel.... (which is pi * d... iameter) which is 91.1 inches.... which is the 'basepoint'

Then simply multiply that by No. of teeth on chainwheel / No. of teeth on cassette.... 91.1 * (30/30)

So with a 1x11 of 32chainwheel and 11-42 cassette, in the lowest gear you travel 69.4 inches
For a lower gear use a 30t chainwheel to give 65.1 inches
28t gives 60.7 inches .... e.g. 28 * (28/42)

I think you're better down a 1x11 route - simpler/lighter

Ps - no doubt the CBs will remind me of crank length too - does it matter ?

[ZeroDarkBivi]

Some believe the narrower chain leads to less durability, but there more to the chain than just width, same goes with the teeth of the chainring. The whole 1 x 12 drivetrain was designed as one system.

Just seen this:

https://www.bikerumor.com/2017/07/01/sr ... ore-165181

Hurrah for an integrated system at last for those who prefer ovality over circularity...!

[jameso]

I like 1x systems, but less so for a touring/'packing bike. I've used 1, 2 or 3 rings, depends on the trip. I don't really thing either has any major pros/cons as long as your low gear is sufficiently low, but for this kind of use all the chain retention tech of 1x set ups is OTT imo. It can depend on what kind of loaded riding you're doing but on a rigid 29er with average load, unless you're a riding superstar I doubt you'll ofter (ever?) have issues with a 2 or 3x10 with a clutch mech. My Jones still has an XT 9s triple or double+bash set up on it, non-clutch mech, the only issue with that set up is a bit of chain bounce. No drops that I can remember. I'm no EWS 'pinner', not shy on the downhills either, still, it's a loaded rigid bike and I've never needed the chain retention which is what 1x11 offers mainly. It's simpler to have one shifter in some respects, with rings up front and the right rear cassette sometimes dumping a ring is preferable to a few shifts at the back anyway.

One other issue I have with SRAM1x11 for long distance and travel / touring is the 10T sprocket (the do an 11-46 though). I prefer 12 or above (Jones has a 6s 15-34 cut cassette on a Hope SS hub) simply as small rear sprockets skip and jam up on longer winter rides - partly the conditions around here but I've seen worse elsewhere and the bike is for travelling after all. 14T or above doesn't get that issue very often. On the cons side the FD does collect more mud so score 1 for 1x11 there.

Spending a lot of time climbing under load on a 1x11 would bug me though - the durability is good from all accounts and on a longer chainstay bike it's a bit less of an issue. but even so, it's not a great chain line. Granny-ringed chainsets are better aligned for low gear climbing.

11-42/46 Shimano with the option to use a double or single up front might be the next all-new drivetrain I go for. Side-swing FDs are so good and solve most of the mud-trap issues.

[GregMay]

No real opinions here. I've 2x, 1x and singlepeed bikes. Each for their own uses. Gearing is generally appropriate for where I ride and live.

Double for commuting and longer races. One is 2x9 one is 2x10. I've no 11 or 12 speed groupsets, I've also no cassette bigger than 40t.
Single for short rides about the valley. 32t oval ring and a Sunrace casssette that goes to 40t.
Singlespeeds for most of my training and longer riding. A spinny one, and a not so spinny one.

If you want to run a front derailleur do. FWIW after all these years I still find front derailleurs fiddly, but then again, who cares. The whole point is riding bikes, not worrying about them being perfect.