Time to put the summer bag away.

[Bearbonesnorm]

Woken to the first frost of the year and a very 'back to school' autumnal feel.Took me a little by surprise ... anyone else?

[ctznsmith]

Well it's grey and overcast in Dorset and might require a jumper outside but a long way off frost.

The thermometer gizmo says 13.6 overnight.

[SteveM]

last nights ride had a distinctly autumnal feel towards the end

I cant recall feeling the days heat in the night this year :-/

[HaYWiRe]

Odd, here its the warmest its been in ages...

Yesterday it was 24c sun and 16c nights, and before then its been as hot as 28c, with night temps hitting 20 and lots of heavy rain! I'm actually hoping for this humidity to break, warm and wet isn't as pleasant as it sounds (cough)

[Mariner]

Warmest sunniest continuous spell all year here at present.
Nights are drawing in though and needed something bright so I could chase some badgers out of the garden the other night so grabbed the joystick. Not having used it for several months couldn't remember how to switch it on
Also was going through a cupboard the other day and dragged out a Pogie.
Took me while to remember what it was.
Does it really get that cold?

[darbeze]

Ha that's funny! I had to chase a badger out of the garden the other day and I used my joystick too...

[whitestone]

Hmm, last night's rain felt a bit cooler than of late Not had any frosts yet but we aren't in a hollow like you are Stu.

Things are definitely starting to turn though, some of the bracken higher up in the Dales is turning brown already yet the blackberries outside the house are only just starting to ripen. Don't think I'll have a big jam making session this year.

[Mike]

Alittle chilly up the mynd the other night in the 150. I reckon I can push it though sept though before the 350 is on order

[RIP]

Yes there is a little nip in the air as they say.

In fact, ta Stu, it’s helped crystalise something that was already on my mind. Obviously I haven’t got anything better to think about. I still haven’t thought it through properly (as usual), but I’ll punt it out and take the heckles and see what comes of it.

This whole thing of how we regulate temperature inside our bags/quilts is interesting. There’s loads of info out there – warbling on about convection, radiation, conduction etc.

I can see the point of all the stuff we do to try and prevent heat loss (or conversely ALLOW heat loss if necessary) once we’re in our cocoons but one thing I have a problem with is “oh, you should always have a hot meal or drink before you turn in”, or “make sure your body is warm before you get in”. I just don’t believe it can make much difference in 99% of situations. My own experience shows it doesn’t - for me. Has anyone got the physiological knowledge to confirm this really makes any difference or not? Given that our bodies spend a huge amount of effort maintaining things at 98.6F (this post is a Centigrade-free Zone) and have had millions of years of evolution perfecting that skill, allowing acceptable temperature regulation within very wide boundaries, what difference is half a pint of “hot” drink or half a pound of “hot” food going to make to a 10-stone object that’s already at 98.6F?. Fair enough, I’m assuming you’ve kept yourself reasonably well fuelled during the day – but none of us are likely to be remotely fuel-deficient in our average BP situations.

Another thing: I always end up changing something in the middle of the night, either bung some leggings on, or take my down hat off or whatever, but I can’t remember doing similar things EVERY night when I’m in my own bed at home. Is it because continuous nights in the same configuration of sleeping equipment only need small tweaks, if any after a while, but the “extreme” change of situation with a one or two night bivi means we can’t possibly “guess” correctly at what we should be wearing/inhabiting and therefore often have to make big changes during the night?

Right, back to my Armchair Bikepacking and the (sadly minimally depleted) Bank Holiday List issued by Mrs Perrin....

“Reg”

[thenorthwind]

Another thing:

I think that's got more to do with the change in temperature. You're bedroom is (presumably) a pretty constant temperature; maybe cools a couple of degrees overnight, which you need to sleep comfortably anyway. Outside it might be 15 degrees (Centigrade, sorry) when you go to bed and 5 when you wake up cold at 5 o'clock.

[RIP]

Good point TNW, I should've come up with that too ;-). Although, I do tend to sleep with my window wide open at home most of the year so I get a fair swing in temperatures. I guess I'm trying to work out if there's any more ways of honing my overnight-clothing-prediction mechanism, which doesn't seem to function very well usually.

[thenorthwind]

I used to struggle with this myself. I'd either fear the worst and get into a winter bag with all my clothes on in summer and wake up in a pool of my own sweat, or try and play it cool (pun intended) and wake up freezing. I'd oscillate between the two. I've managed to mainly damp my oscillations now though. I think this is mostly down to experience, but probably also a choice of sleeping bags and an appreciation of layering. I used to dislike sleeping in clothes, which I never do at home, but I've come to appreciate a base layer and I think that helps keep my temperature stable.

[RIP]

I knew I shouldn't have set off down this route. I'm now starting to contemplate binning cooking gear completely and just have cold things - save weight, save faff, save mess (certainly with the way I "cook" ;-) ). Probably the main reason I "cook" stuff is purely morale-boosting - "ooohhhh, a nice hot brew" - without considering why/if it IS morale-boosting. Not sure it's "fun", other than the occasional "let's see if I can do a four-course gourmet BP meal" challenge stunt (although I'm all for that type of silliness believe me).

[Bearbonesnorm]

I don't find that I really need to eat / drink something hot before retiring in order to sleep well (warm) but going to bed hungry or thirsty doesn't help.

“make sure your body is warm before you get in”.

This is something completely different from the hot food theory. Imagine your sleeping bag is a thermos flask ... if you put something cold inside, the 'insulation' will keep it cold. However, if you put some nice hot tea inside, the same insulation will keep it hot. So, if you climb inside your sleeping bag cold and shivering, you expect to stay like that for quite a while. Do a few star jumps or whatever first to generate some heat and you'll be warm and snug.

[RIP]

Ta Stu, I get the thermos point, but hot tea in a thermos is pretty much constant temp throughout its volume, whereas my lithesome bod would only be chilly for the top few skin layers surely (my chilliness, like my beauty, would only be skin deep ;-) )? 95% of it (core) would still be at 98.6 or I'd be dead of hypothermia? I could do a few jumps to heat my skin up via the active muscles, but the core would do that after a few minutes anyway if the bag etc was preventing any external heat loss? Sorry to sound like a stroppy teenager, dunno why I'm pursuing this in particular today Beats watching the telly I suppose.

[Bearbonesnorm]

Yeah but it's about 'feel' ... you can feel cold or feel hot yet your core temp' won't have altered noticably should you pop a thermometer somewhere

[RIP]

Ohhh, go on then .

Like Bomb #20 in 'Dark Star': "I must think on this further"......

[ianfitz]

For me it doesn't need to be hot food but eating is necessary.

Put calories in and heat will happen