A carbon Shand...

[Pat]

I'm certainly not having a go at shand, quite the opposite. The fact is, that I love the 'one man in a shed' aspect to brands like Shand....there are many other up and coming frame builders who I hold in the same high regard....I'd love to have the balls to create something individual and special that someone would pay me for. As to whether it would pay enough, I don't know, and have never thought about it.
By buying in a batch of generic frames and branding them up HAS cheapened the ethos of the brand in my eyes....I can't help that.
Anyway, enough from me, as it's getting like STW forum......

[Ian]

Back in the day, On One had the Inbred. Steel, cutting edge geometry in its day and all that. At some point, On One introduced their first carbon bike. Did everyone go "my god, what are they doing... They've ruined everything that they stood for and sacrificed their steel roots"? No, didn't think so.

On price, Salsa carbon frames are twice the price of the Oykel. Where do people think Salsa frames are made, if not in China?

If diversifying the product line allows Shand to do more things across the whole business, then that's a good thing. Introducing cheaper steel frames would have been far more damaging to the brand in my opinion.

Anyway, I think the Oykel looks lovely, and I'm liking the look of 650B+, so I've ordered one very excited

[Pat]

But both salsa and on one frames are unique to them, not copied from trek, who spent over two years developing the design with the elevated stay, and then bought of the peg, before putting a pretty frock and lipstick on.

[whitestone]

Visually (I'll leave it at that) it's similar to a Trek Stache, I've seen and ridden alongside a couple of Stache 5s around here - eye catching but not aesthetic if you get what I mean. TBH, the colour of the frame in most of the shots doesn't inspire me. I think it's one of those frames that would benefit from a two (or three) colour scheme. Other than my own bikes I've not much to compare it to weight wise but 9.5Kg is pretty damn light! My (steel) Solaris with rigid carbon forks with 650B+ wheels is around 12.7Kg, my carbon road bike is just under 8Kg.

My Solaris will be in 650B+ mode at Bearstock BTW

[mountainbaker]

I think comparing Shand to On One is proof that Shand's brand has already been devalued.

[Ian]

Oh, ffs, I give up

[ianfitz]

Well I like the look of it. And the colour!

If Steven would like anyone to hammer one round the Peak District for a while if be happy to give one a go.

[Alpinum]

Or Iceland or Switzerland...
or Mongolia sooner or later... or...

Just give it to me, I'll take it to nice places.
(Not saying the Peak isn't a lovely place)

[Ray Young]

I have been following this with interest and a touch of disbelief. Shand is not now a garden shed builder (albeit a very good one) but a very successful business. If selling these carbon bikes helps his business to continue building top end steel frames then so be it. I don't see how selling these carbon frames will lower the perceived quality of his steel frames. A good number of years ago I enquired about a custom MTB with a suspension adjusted frame but with a rigid fork. His reply was that he did not recommend it as it would compromise the quality of the bike. He now builds off the peg bikes with exactly this format, why, because it's what people want, it's simply business. Good luck to the man I say.

[SRS]

Reading the comments it seems that several points are at cross-purposes.

That the frame is carbon isn't an issue.

That the frame is produced in China rather than Scotland isn't an issue either.

It's the fact the frame comes from a generic mould using the same standard carbon layup that's disappointing. And it's only disappointing because Shand is rightly held in such high regard.

But that doesn't mean I've suddenly become a hater! I am allowed to just be disappointed in this one frame. But I still hope Shand go from strength to strength and continue to produce beautiful high quality frames for many years to come.

[padonbike]

But that doesn't mean I've suddenly become a hater

If you read through all the comments, I think the only hater is Shand himself, who classifies anyone who voices an opinion contrary to his as "gobbyshites". No other comment has used unpleasant or derogatory language to anyone else; they've simply expressed opinions. The greater majority of these opinions show a good degree of intelligence and knowledge of the real life dynamics of the bike business.

[firedfromthecircus]

Reading the comments it seems that several points are at cross-purposes.

That the frame is carbon isn't an issue.

That the frame is produced in China rather than Scotland isn't an issue either.

Isn't an issue to who?

You might be at cross purposes, but that doesn't mean everyone is in the same boat.

[SRS]

Isn't an issue to who?

Really!?! I wrote the post, so me. I hope that clears things up for you.

[Justchris]

Back in the day, On One had the Inbred. Steel, cutting edge geometry in its day and all that. At some point, On One introduced their first carbon bike. Did everyone go "my god, what are they doing... They've ruined everything that they stood for and sacrificed their steel roots"? No, didn't think so.

On price, Salsa carbon frames are twice the price of the Oykel. Where do people think Salsa frames are made, if not in China?

If diversifying the product line allows Shand to do more things across the whole business, then that's a good thing. Introducing cheaper steel frames would have been far more damaging to the brand in my opinion.

Anyway, I think the Oykel looks lovely, and I'm liking the look of 650B+, so I've ordered one very excited

Ian if your wanting to fund your new Oykel, I will happily take your bahookie frame!
Yes that's me calling first dibs!!!!!

[Pat]

I don't want to upset other members of this forum, it's an excellent place here, with top people, who all do the thing I love doing, some of them quasi-famous, due to me watching their blue dots in various races!
But, it seems to me, that Mr Shand has taken one of these...


http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/27-5-Carbon-F ... SwgQ9V1Uac
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/27-5-Carbon-F ... SwgQ9V1Uac

Which in itself, is a copy of a bike that has been extensively developed by another brand (albeit in aluminium, not carbon), and surreptitiously worded his sales blurb to insinuate that they had designed it, before marking it up a fair bit, and selling it on. Then acting a bit 'political' with the justification, whilst getting a bit arsey with the people who have questioned the claims.
I still love the steel bikes, but it's all a bit tainted now.

I understand that some people will defend his choices, through brand loyalty/friendship etc, and it's not my wish to antagonise anyone....I never make a big deal about things on forums ffs, but I'm not being a hater, merely because im stating the obvious. In my eyes, anyway!

[Bearbonesnorm]

Can we put this one to bed now? Going over the same stuff repeatedly, is getting a bit dull.

Everyone has an opinion and everyone's opinion is perfectly valid, however, ultimately it's the market which will decide whether or not it was a good move on Shand's behalf. If you like the bike buy one, if you don't like it, then don't ... it's fairly simple and nothing anyone says here from this point on will really make any difference.

BTW - this isn't aimed at anyone, it's aimed at everyone