Foraging

[Mariner]

Reading the post by trail717 on HT550 thread reminded me of a conversation I had in last week.
I was being persuaded to start using ‘energy gels’ and power bars’ during rides but have two objections. Firstly I am suspicious of these type of products and I have a problem eating while riding so force myself to stop every couple of hours to eat and drink. Secondly if you were away on a long distance ride say ten hours per day over seven days you would have to carry a lot of energy bars and gels then there is the cost.
Here is a scenario, which is probably more akin to reality.
You are on a long distance ride through remote countryside. You are not carrying a stove and you can find at least one hot meal per day. All other foraging is restricted to SPAR type shops and garages and you have a thermos flask or two for hot water and coffee. Assume you can find a larger supermarket every two or three days.
My list would be bananas and apples. Mini pork pies and cheese as long as it’s the industrial processed cheddar style. Tinned fish and rice pudding plus any nuts dried fruit and chocolate containing nuts. The person I was having the conversation with was and ex British champion at Tri or Ironman and was telling me his title event drink was Coca-Cola because of the caffeine content so I would include some of that as its universally available but would need to flatten it or dilute it. The problem seems to be that this is all energy spike stuff and what you really need is the GI type or is it low GI type stuff?
The choice is between foraging daily and maybe carrying stuff only available at a supermarket such as fruit.
I pass a SPAR on my rides so am going to call in on the pretext of needing something so I can assess what they do have.
Given the limited or is it unlimited amount of processed pre-packaged food stuff available in the form of chocolate, meats, pies, crisps, sugary drinks what would you chose?

[HaYWiRe]

Firstly, being Type 1 I am obviously avoiding anything sugary and too sweet, so no chocolate, sweets, so I stick to slow burn carbs

Secondly, and as a direct result of the first, my idea of a fast burn food is actually bread and cereal, after 4 years of no added sugar, my metabolism lives and burns Carbs quickly, and I find bread naturally sweet

Low GI (glycemic Index) is what you're after, and means how quickly your body uses the energy, and has more affect than sheer sugar content, rich dark chocolate being a good example of slower burning sugars, plus its good moral


The complications for me come after day 2/3, living off slow carbs only lasts so long before rapid weight loss, so I have to switch to a high Fat diet. Ofcourse its hard to eat alot of fat, without also resorting to junk and bordering on heart failure , especially nowadays


So in short, bakeries, Gregs, pasties, pies and bread are your friend, but then again I am somewhat limited on diet

Plus look at it this way, what's more stereotypical than cycling the countryside with a massive French baguette

[benp1]

How much space do you have to carry stuff? And presumably it needs to be relatively crush proof

Syrup waffles
Soreen
Flapjack
Marzipan
Snack bars - eat natural, nakd, 9bar etc
Peanut M&Ms

[GregMay]

*repeats talk at Alpkit BSO*

If you're riding long enough, and hard enough, it really doesn't matter what goes in once it goes in and stays down.

Really, it doesn't.

[voodoo_simon]

Petrol stations are way better, coffee machines and those flapjacks with thick chocolate on top

Also, jelly babies to constantly snack on are good, as are nuts/raisons

When I did the R150, I took nothing in the way of energy products, at 1AM, i regretted that as I couldn't stomach food but I swear a couple of gels would have got my out of the checkpoint several hours earlier! Think a mix of gels, electrons and normal foods will keep you plodding along nicely

[Single Speed George]

if i have space and aint going out for more than a few days, i like to take like home made mini pie things some sweet some savory. found some great recipys in a book that was writen by one of the team sky nutritianists i think or someone like that and they are desifgned for TDF riders on the go as they basicaly say gells give to much of a spike etc ( its my parents book so i just borrowed it so cant remeber exactly ) anyway these bike sized hard to crush pies made from bred as the pastery then baked have been ecelent , and as they are bite sized really easy to get down you. i pacage them in haf a medium sized plastic milk bottle so they dont crush in my dry bags.... the banna chocolate, and ham quich were the best i have tryed so far

[ton]

my idea of a fast burn food is actually bread and cereal,

but these are not low GI.

[whitestone]

found some great recipies in a book that was written by one of the team sky nutritionists i think or someone like that and they are designed for TDF riders on the go as they basically say gells give to much of a spike etc

I've got the book that you mention, it's called "Feed zone portables" http://www.amazon.co.uk/Feed-Zone-Porta ... +nutrition just done one recipe from it so far but as a starting point it's pretty good. Note that the easiest rice to get hold of that is suitable is Risotto rice, it's sticky so the rice cakes hold together.

[GregMay]

my idea of a fast burn food is actually bread and cereal,

but these are not low GI.

Hit it on the head Tony.

[Ian]

Think a mix of gels, electrons and normal foods will keep you plodding along nicely

Electrons are a good choice - they don't weigh anything and if you want, you can use them to power your electrical devices

[GregMay]

Think a mix of gels, electrons and normal foods will keep you plodding along nicely

Electrons are a good choice - they don't weigh anything and if you want, you can use them to power your electrical devices

But you need to balance it out with a healthy source of protons otherwise it all goes a bit negative.

[whitestone]

Think a mix of gels, electrons and normal foods will keep you plodding along nicely

Electrons are a good choice - they don't weigh anything and if you want, you can use them to power your electrical devices

But you need to balance it out with a healthy source of protons otherwise it all goes a bit negative.

I'm on the fence with this one, just feeling a bit neutral

[ton]

I crave savoury food while out riding. so garages work well for me.
scotch eggs, salami, olives, peanuts, samosa's and pork pies. perfect riding food, lowish carbs, plenty protein. perfect for long steady exercise fuel. eat fat to burn fat.

[ianfitz]

if i have space and aint going out for more than a few days, i like to take like home made mini pie things some sweet some savory. found some great recipys in a book that was writen by one of the team sky nutritianists i think or someone like that and they are desifgned for TDF riders on the go as they basicaly say gells give to much of a spike etc ( its my parents book so i just borrowed it so cant remeber exactly ) anyway these bike sized hard to crush pies made from bred as the pastery then baked have been ecelent , and as they are bite sized really easy to get down you. i pacage them in haf a medium sized plastic milk bottle so they dont crush in my dry bags.... the banna chocolate, and ham quich were the best i have tryed so far

is the book Feed zone portables?

[GregMay]

Think a mix of gels, electrons and normal foods will keep you plodding along nicely

Electrons are a good choice - they don't weigh anything and if you want, you can use them to power your electrical devices

But you need to balance it out with a healthy source of protons otherwise it all goes a bit negative.

I'm on the fence with this one, just feeling a bit neutral

I always think its charm is a bit strange from the top to the bottom even if it is up or down.

Yes I am a nerd. But I am also a scientist so it's ok.

[Single Speed George]

is the book Feed zone portables?

yes thats it remeberd now ! it seems really good done several trips trying diferaint things from it allways worked and keped me happy anyway

[jameso]

If you're riding long enough, and hard enough, it really doesn't matter what goes in once it goes in and stays down.

Really, it doesn't.

It's the 'once it goes in and stays down' bit that makes the difference to me. I've got an unfussy stomach and I'd agree that after a while it's simply about calories, burgers, fries and coke will do, but a fatty pile of junk food will only stay down if the pace stays down afterwards. I can ride at a higher intensity sooner after filling up by avoiding some foods. Above a certain fat content all it seems to do is just plug up the stomach and makes me feel like crap. Other stuff makes the blood sugar bounce too much. There's some stuff I used to eat that I now avoid unless it's late in the day and my pace is low or I'm going to stop within a couple of hours. I have shop-raid preferences that work well for me and it's taken a fair number of miles feeling pretty grim to learn that what looks appealing when half-bonked out won't do me any good apart from the comfort food element, a 5 min fix that means 2 hours or more of ill miles afterwards. Other things go in fast and mean my average pace will be better for it. For low-pace touring anything goes, fill up and burn it off .. another reason to take it a bit easier : )

[whitestone]

The feed zone portables book has a big section on how the gut works when presented with certain foodstuffs and why the bloated feeling occurs. Also a comment that high sugar drinks that get promoted as a thirst quencher actually cause transfer of water from the body to the gut thus dehydrating you! Basically they are too strong a solution so adversely alter the osmotic gradient.

[jameso]

^ sounds like a useful book, I'll look it up. Home made stodgy stuff of the right content is great. The high fat stomach plug thing was something I read about on Matt Hart's / Torq Fitness website. The sugary drink effect is something remembered from GCSE Biology : ) None of it was much use in the States where most of the food was from 1 of 2 groups - proper junk or Subway.

[HaYWiRe]

my idea of a fast burn food is actually bread and cereal,

but these are not low GI.

Compared to say, gummy bears/sweets/energy bars, its my closest equivalent and gives me my rush.
All-Bran, Shredded Wheat and plain muesli re packaged into 20g Carb amounts make keeping track easier

And Bread is one of few foods I can still enjoy, though it doesn't help with my weight loss much...


I think all of this mainly applies to a race mentality, if I'm just exploring and going a relaxed pace I eat whatever I feel, as Id rather enjoy it than simply tolerate it as fuel

[HopeValleyPaul]

Billy Rice talks about a high ketone diet in this podcast. In essence it's about retraining your body to run off fat by removing all sources of sugar. Results in a much smaller daily food intake compared to chasing sugar highs. Takes about three years though. Really good podcast about general training for big trips.

https://itunes.apple.com/gb/podcast/mou ... =351810350

[ianfitz]

Billy Rice talks about a high ketone diet in this podcast. In essence it's about retraining your body to run off fat by removing all sources of sugar. Results in a much smaller daily food intake compared to chasing sugar highs. Takes about three years though. Really good podcast about general training for big trips.

https://itunes.apple.com/gb/podcast/mou ... =351810350

What's the name of the podcast Paul? That link takes me to the Mtb cast main page

[Justchris]

The complications for me come after day 2/3, living off slow carbs only lasts so long before rapid weight loss, so I have to switch to a high Fat diet. Ofcourse its hard to eat alot of fat, without also resorting to junk and bordering on heart failure , especially nowadays

Just out of intrest. Are you decreasing or increasing your insulin? If so which one or do you use a mix? Because you should not be going into ketosis that quickly with rapid weight loss. You may want to pm me.

[HopeValleyPaul]

Billy Rice talks about a high ketone diet in this podcast. In essence it's about retraining your body to run off fat by removing all sources of sugar. Results in a much smaller daily food intake compared to chasing sugar highs. Takes about three years though. Really good podcast about general training for big trips.

https://itunes.apple.com/gb/podcast/mou ... =351810350

What's the name of the podcast Paul? That link takes me to the Mtb cast main page

It was from the 9th September. "Billy Rice- tour divide, nutrition, training and endurance." I've listened to it a few times now. he is very good at explaining it all.

This is worth a read as well if your interested in high ketone diet.
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/ar ... 9515003340
"Conclusion-Compared to highly trained ultra-endurance athletes consuming an HC diet, long-term keto-adaptation results in extraordinarily high rates of fat oxidation, whereas muscle glycogen utilization and repletion patterns during and after a 3 hour run are similar."

[HaYWiRe]

The complications for me come after day 2/3, living off slow carbs only lasts so long before rapid weight loss, so I have to switch to a high Fat diet. Ofcourse its hard to eat alot of fat, without also resorting to junk and bordering on heart failure , especially nowadays

Just out of intrest. Are you decreasing or increasing your insulin? If so which one or do you use a mix? Because you should not be going into ketosis that quickly with rapid weight loss. You may want to pm me.

Its not Ketosis, if it was id be in a whole other kind of trouble...my sugars are usually very well controlled (fingers crossed)
I'm just young, have a very fast metabolism and have always struggled with weight loss even pre-diagnosis, weeks of continuous exercise exaggerate this, a good week I'm 9st, but I average as low as 7st 2lbs


As for doses, initially or short term I increase bolus slightly to combat adrenaline, then reduce gradually, after a week my doses are minimal and I'm most controlled. Even a few days after I stop exercise. my basal only gets reduced slightly. its hard to know if my doses are big or small by most standards as I've got nothing to compare it to, but its working for me so far