Well OT: Cashlessness
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- Bearbonesnorm
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Well OT: Cashlessness
I'm not much of a tinfoil hat wearer but today's experience got me thinking ....
I went on-line and tried to make a bacs payment. It was 3k so a reasonable sum yet not big in the great scheme. After filling out the details and pressing send, I was told that the payment would be declined and that I no longer had any access to my on-line bank accounts.
Obviously, I did what you'd do and rang the phone number. I got through after a few minutes and explained what had just happened. For the following 35 minutes I answered question after question - started off as the usual security type questions but then went onto quizzing about what I was buying and who I was buying it of and all in great detail. I even explained that the seller was a friend of 30 years standing, a lawyer and even the executor of my will.
When we finally got to the end of all that, I was told they would still decline the payment. As you can imagine, I'm now slightly fed up so asked them to clarify that they were in fact dictating when and on what I could spend my own money and, yes we are, seems to be the answer (I could feel a 'it's for your own good' and a pat on the head coming but thankfully it didn't)
Currently cash is a back up but what happens once that goes? If you think about it (even briefly) that's quite a scary prospect with potentially massive implications.
I went on-line and tried to make a bacs payment. It was 3k so a reasonable sum yet not big in the great scheme. After filling out the details and pressing send, I was told that the payment would be declined and that I no longer had any access to my on-line bank accounts.
Obviously, I did what you'd do and rang the phone number. I got through after a few minutes and explained what had just happened. For the following 35 minutes I answered question after question - started off as the usual security type questions but then went onto quizzing about what I was buying and who I was buying it of and all in great detail. I even explained that the seller was a friend of 30 years standing, a lawyer and even the executor of my will.
When we finally got to the end of all that, I was told they would still decline the payment. As you can imagine, I'm now slightly fed up so asked them to clarify that they were in fact dictating when and on what I could spend my own money and, yes we are, seems to be the answer (I could feel a 'it's for your own good' and a pat on the head coming but thankfully it didn't)
Currently cash is a back up but what happens once that goes? If you think about it (even briefly) that's quite a scary prospect with potentially massive implications.
May the bridges you burn light your way
- RIP
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Re: Well OT: Cashlessness
Yep, cash is about your last untraceable freedom now. Oh and walking and cycling, and bartering, but I'm sure they'll find a way to trace those too soon.
"My God, Ponsonby, I'm two-thirds of the way to the grave and what have I done?" - RIP
The sign outside the asylum is the wrong way round.....
"At least you got some stories" - James Acaster
The sign outside the asylum is the wrong way round.....
"At least you got some stories" - James Acaster
- Bearlegged
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- RIP
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Re: Well OT: Cashlessness
Indeed, but not if one has no gizmos and has the phone scourge turned off
"My God, Ponsonby, I'm two-thirds of the way to the grave and what have I done?" - RIP
The sign outside the asylum is the wrong way round.....
"At least you got some stories" - James Acaster
The sign outside the asylum is the wrong way round.....
"At least you got some stories" - James Acaster
Re: Well OT: Cashlessness
I wonder if they'd have batted an eyelid if you'd done it as 3 x £1000 transactions.
- Bearbonesnorm
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Re: Well OT: Cashlessness
Don't know Paul. I'm very surprised an eyelid was raised at three grand really.I wonder if they'd have batted an eyelid if you'd done it as 3 x £1000 transactions.
May the bridges you burn light your way
Re: Well OT: Cashlessness
I've had similar but it was an account that didn't get much use.Bearbonesnorm wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 7:29 pmDon't know Paul. I'm very surprised an eyelid was raised at three grand really.I wonder if they'd have batted an eyelid if you'd done it as 3 x £1000 transactions.
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- fatbikephil
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Re: Well OT: Cashlessness
I've lifted that kind of dosh out of the bank in reddies and they haven't asked what it's for, beyond a casual question - I just said it was for a car as I couldn't be bothered explaining the intracies of buying rusting piles of junk from somebody which then get turned into rare, valuable and classic motorcycles....
I'd have defo been on a "it's my money, I'll do what I want with it" vibe. Or just used paypal. (or bitcoin )
I'd have defo been on a "it's my money, I'll do what I want with it" vibe. Or just used paypal. (or bitcoin )
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Re: Well OT: Cashlessness
The questions are linked to anti-money laundering legislation/requirements. Not sure how they are applied however, but that's the root cause.
I normally say I'm buying a second hand car.
I normally say I'm buying a second hand car.
- Bearbonesnorm
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Re: Well OT: Cashlessness
I did mention that as a 52 year old, I felt old enough to decide what I can spend my own money onI'd have defo been on a "it's my money, I'll do what I want with it" vibe. Or just used paypal. (or bitcoin )
I thought that but quickly turned into a conversation about my buying choices and their worry I'd be scammed and return to them looking to reclaim my 3k once my wealthy friend had run off to Barbados with his ill gotten gainsThe questions are linked to anti-money laundering legislation/requirements
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Re: Well OT: Cashlessness
You can see where they're coming from though - if you were scammed and they hadn't done any diligence on it, then you could go back to them and claim the money back. You see stories like that all the time.
Ao, now, if you do go back and say I Woz Skammed they'll tell you to jog on. The banks only really do things to look after their own money after all
Ao, now, if you do go back and say I Woz Skammed they'll tell you to jog on. The banks only really do things to look after their own money after all
Re: Well OT: Cashlessness
You don't perhaps bank with the one recently fined £108 million for money laundering short comings? I personally don't think cash will ever go completely or not as long as politicians and very wealthy people have need of "brown envelopes"
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Re: Well OT: Cashlessness
AML kicks in at £10,000Bearbonesnorm wrote: ↑Thu Apr 20, 2023 8:17 amI did mention that as a 52 year old, I felt old enough to decide what I can spend my own money onI'd have defo been on a "it's my money, I'll do what I want with it" vibe. Or just used paypal. (or bitcoin )
I thought that but quickly turned into a conversation about my buying choices and their worry I'd be scammed and return to them looking to reclaim my 3k once my wealthy friend had run off to Barbados with his ill gotten gainsThe questions are linked to anti-money laundering legislation/requirements
This is down to the banks having to refund sub standard tonnes of cash to people being scammed. This in turn is down to the abject failure of Action Fraud to do anything to solve the problem in the UK. Sadly Stu you are trapped in an algorithm designed by clever people which like all designs is not 100% foolproof. Read up on the sentencing algorithms used in the USA that are sending people to jail for 10 years after a few minor misdemeanours. I've been round this block many times after my Mum was scammed. Sadly the only solution was a long face-to-face meeting with a senior manager in the bank which took months to arrange.
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- Cheeky Monkey
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Re: Well OT: Cashlessness
They haven't managed to kill cheques yet (despite what some might think) so I suspect cash still has some life left in it.
One day I'm going to have to get my head round bitcoin because from my (uninformed) viewpoint it just seems to be an absolute con.
One day I'm going to have to get my head round bitcoin because from my (uninformed) viewpoint it just seems to be an absolute con.
- fatbikephil
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Re: Well OT: Cashlessness
Correct - at all levels. Someone convinced someone else that a few bytes of data was worth a few quid and they believed them - it spiraled out from there. The critics state that it's a house of cards with no bottom layer but people are increasingly of the view that the wider financial 'market' is the same. A mate bough half a bit coin for £20k just before Ellon Musk told the world it wasn't ethical and sold all his. Mates half bitcoin then worth £10k. Presumably Musk then bought his all back under a shell company cheap, as the value has crept up again. Personally I wouldn't touch one with a bargepole.Cheeky Monkey wrote: ↑Thu Apr 20, 2023 10:18 am One day I'm going to have to get my head round bitcoin because from my (uninformed) viewpoint it just seems to be an absolute con.
I'm tempted by yon Russian wifey's scam though - create a virtual crypto currency (a virtual, virtual currency?!) take a load of money off stupid investors and then disappear into thin air
Stu, lend me £3k I need to rescue my second cousin from a gang of slavers, cash for preference
Re: Well OT: Cashlessness
Worse still it's an environmental disaster. People forget the the physical presence of the 'virtual' world is banks of servers consuming electricity I've a mate who 'mines' bitcoin, rows of PCs generating loads of heat you then need to get rid of. Each transaction the code gets longer so you need more and more computing power, with banks and banks of machines and cooling systems.fatbikephil wrote: ↑Thu Apr 20, 2023 11:46 amCorrect - at all levels.Cheeky Monkey wrote: ↑Thu Apr 20, 2023 10:18 am One day I'm going to have to get my head round bitcoin because from my (uninformed) viewpoint it just seems to be an absolute con.
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Re: Well OT: Cashlessness
That's how all money works - not specific to BitCoin. A british £20 note isn't actually worth £20 in raw materials. It's used as a placeholder for the real value. It's the same whether that's a thin polymer sheet, a nickel/brass coin or a few bytes of data.fatbikephil wrote: ↑Thu Apr 20, 2023 11:46 am Someone convinced someone else that a few bytes of data was worth a few quid and they believed them - it spiraled out from there.
Re: Well OT: Cashlessness
Sorry, going off at a complete tangent here (hey, it's a forum thread, that's what happens... )sean_iow wrote: ↑Thu Apr 20, 2023 2:12 pm Worse still it's an environmental disaster. People forget the the physical presence of the 'virtual' world is banks of servers consuming electricity I've a mate who 'mines' bitcoin, rows of PCs generating loads of heat you then need to get rid of. Each transaction the code gets longer so you need more and more computing power, with banks and banks of machines and cooling systems.
I read recently of a scheme whereby the heat generated by banks of servers was being used to heat a public swimming pool. Exeter it may have been but likely to be rolled out more widely?
We go out into the hills to lose ourselves, not to get lost. You are only lost if you need to be somewhere else and if you really need to be somewhere else then you're probably in the wrong place to begin with.
Re: Well OT: Cashlessness
If anyone hasn't listened to it yet, it's quite the story...fatbikephil wrote: ↑Thu Apr 20, 2023 11:46 am I'm tempted by yon Russian wifey's scam though - create a virtual crypto currency (a virtual, virtual currency?!) take a load of money off stupid investors and then disappear into thin air
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p07nkd84
Yup - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-64939558
There are theories at the bottom of my jargon.
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Re: Well OT: Cashlessness
Correct. All the power wasted storing all those ridiculous cat videos is minuscule compared to that for crypto.sean_iow wrote: ↑Thu Apr 20, 2023 2:12 pm Worse still it's an environmental disaster. People forget the the physical presence of the 'virtual' world is banks of servers consuming electricity
Re cash and debt and so on, as I've droned on about for years the country and most of the population are effectively bankrupt/insolvent. £2.5Tn national debt as we speak, and same amount for households. Never mind all the hidden off-balance-sheet stuff such as PFI.
A £20 loan being backed by £20 of savings hasn't been the case for decades. Banks/government just magic it up: billions for QE, Term Funding Scheme, student loans, Help To [Buy] Sell, interest-only mortgages, Covid business 'loans', Covid furlough, blah blah. All drawn forward from the future and impossible to pay back, same way as we're doing with the planet's resources.
Is it Cheery Friday yet?
Last edited by RIP on Thu Apr 20, 2023 8:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"My God, Ponsonby, I'm two-thirds of the way to the grave and what have I done?" - RIP
The sign outside the asylum is the wrong way round.....
"At least you got some stories" - James Acaster
The sign outside the asylum is the wrong way round.....
"At least you got some stories" - James Acaster
Re: Well OT: Cashlessness
Way longer than that Minimum capital ration which is the percentage of cash a bank must physically keep. It's never more than 10% and think it's about 8% they actually physically have.A £20 loan being backed by £20 of savings hasn't been the case for decades
You then get the velocity of money ( I borrow £100 buy a bike they put it in the bank and the bank then loans that money out again...capitalism is one big pyramid scheme basically and as long as everyone thinks they will get their money , but does not try to, it works. Only take 10% of us( or the richest .2%) to crash it all as a run on a bank shows
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Re: Well OT: Cashlessness
I was told recently I could pay 7k by online payment if I adjusted my limits* accordingly,( by BACS ). They stated a CHAPS transfer is an unnecessary expensive way to transfer money quicky , unless it was over 20k.......Bearbonesnorm wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 3:50 pm I'm not much of a tinfoil hat wearer but today's experience got me thinking ....
I went on-line and tried to make a bacs payment. It was 3k so a reasonable sum yet not big in the
*I immediately reverted the limits after the payment...
I hope you think you know, what I might of exactly meant.
Warning - may contain value odded typos & ither mythspellings..
Warning - may contain value odded typos & ither mythspellings..
- Bearbonesnorm
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Re: Well OT: Cashlessness
In theory my on-line transfer limit is 25k a day.I was told recently I could pay 7k by online payment if I adjusted my limits* accordingly,( by BACS ). They stated a CHAPS transfer is an unnecessary expensive way to transfer money quicky , unless it was over 20k.......
May the bridges you burn light your way