Layering for cold weather riding

[woodsmith]

Like many of you it seems I've been out enjoying the freezing conditions. On last weeks overnighter while not pushing myself very hard I was still damp with sweat when arriving at camp and by the time the tent was up, I was changed into thermals and snug in the sleeping bag I'd got thoroughly chilled.
Lower half was DHB thermal leg warmers, Vulpine merino padded shorts and baggy shorts over.
Top half was a figure hugging Rab grid fleece, long sleeved riding shirt and a very breathable Arcteryx wind jacket.
Head / neck merino buff and fleece beanie.

Bottom half, knees especially needed more protection and any less on the top half doesn't feel like it would have been enough.

On day rides this is less of an issue as I just don't really stop riding while I'm out for a few hours, but getting chilled easily at days end while camping is not good and even less so putting on damp kit in the morning.

What are others dressed in? Best ways to avoid this issue?

[faustus]

Without sounding too familiar, how are the merino boxers?!

I've only been doing short rides out in this cold just due to lack of free time, but getting out plenty because conditions are so nice. I've been wearing merino boxers, merino long johns from alpkit, riding/hiking trousers and water proof socks on the bottom half. top half is merino baselayer, mt500 jersey, and thick endura Gilet plus merino buff and merino cap. Lots of merino close to the skin seems to work best for me, and it's much warmer than when I used to wear full length bib trousers - as per the other thread it seems like warmer legs help with warmer feet, even though I still have normal non-winter shoes. If it was getting colder or I was out for longer or overnight, i'd be wearing my trusty buffalo jacket as well!

[whitestone]

I've been experimenting with this myself in recent days. Probably similar to yourself on top but just long Roubaix material bibs for my legs.

Generally you need to balance three things:

• the environment (i.e. temperature)
• your level of effort
• your clothing.

For a given set of conditions if you are sweating then you are either working too hard or wearing too much (or both). Also you can't assume that what you start out with is right for the whole ride, you need to be adding/removing zipping/unzipping items to maintain your temperature in that Goldilocks zone. I'll take multiple buffs, beanies, etc and swap them out depending on the level of effort: on Sunday I did a ride that had a big descent (zip everything up, put on balaclava) then a long bit of old railway (unzip windproof and mid-layer) then a long climb (unzip base layer, replace balaclava with fleece cap). You do have to think ahead a bit, which can be easier said than done if you don't know the route/area. The danger is thinking to yourself "I'll just push on and do xxxx in a minute" when you should be doing "X" now.

There's a fine line between the amount of effort that leaves you feeling cold and that which makes you sweat. You just have to pay attention at all times.

For getting to stops, have a good set of insulation to shove on as soon as you stop, duvet AND leg cover. We did a winter biking camp and one of the tips was to have a duvet jacket in a large Stem cell to put on when you stopped either on the trail or when you got to camp.

[faustus]

Yes, good point to make on adding/removing layers as needed. Even short rides will have me removing or unzipping/zipping up things to regulate heat/sweat. Frame bag comes in handy for stowing layers on any ride for me - partly because most of my winter stuff isn't very light or packable...

[woodsmith]

Without sounding too familiar, how are the merino boxers?!

Just bought them recentley after asking on here for recommendations. 25 quid from sport pursuit. Followed the sizing chart and had to return them ( after days of delay dealing with sport pursuit. Never again) for the next size down.
I've only got a couple of hundred miles on them so far so a bit too early to be sure. Its a very minimal chamois, not very padded and slightly too short / or positioned too far back as it doesn't protect the old taint and theres a double row of flat locked stitching directly in front which caused some iritation on the first ride but which I haven't noticed since.
On the positive side they breath well, don't stink even after several days of use and don't have that "crapped in nappy" feel when walking around.

[Lazarus]

As they said layering and adaptability but the perfect set up cannot be achieved. You will be cold at some points as it's winter and freezing cold out there.
If you are comfortable most of the time then this is acceptable.me I don't do more than 6 hours in winter ( sub zero ish)

Cold feet is my main issue. Riding I just walk till warm at night I have yet to find a perfect solution

[voodoo_simon]

Bottom up…

Bontrager OMW boots
Merino socks
Polaris Windproof bib tights
Thin base layer for wicking
Thick mid layer jersey or thin fleece
Polaris Soft shell outer
(Sometimes neck buff)
Beard
Light changing sunglasses
Crikey, how much windproof hat that covers ears
Helmet

And thick Pearl Izumi gloves or pogies if on a flat bar

[Bearlegged]

... one of the tips was to have a duvet jacket in a large Stem cell to put on when you stopped ...

Ooh, I like that one.

[psling]

Agree with points raised above. We're all different in how much we sweat, how much effort causes us to sweat and how much we may feel the cold. You've pretty much answered your own question by referring to layering but as others have said we need to actively adjust the layering to suit the conditions. Putting an adjustment off until the next bend, the top of the hill, the next 10 minutes - we all do it, don't we!! - is what can cause issues.
But the most important point made above - put on an insulating layer when you stop, especially at the end of the day setting up camp. IMO

[voodoo_simon]

... one of the tips was to have a duvet jacket in a large Stem cell to put on when you stopped ...

Ooh, I like that one.

I’ve done this in Finland (well, with a seat pack) and it’s a great idea, if the outer layer is in easy reach, then you’ll use it. If it’s stuffed away inside out in a bag at the bottom, then you’ll never use it.

Think I’ll return to using this tip

[Al]

My top tips would be brynje mesh base layers. Best I’ve had for wicking, dry instantly, trap loads of heat if under something but allow you to dump it almost instantly if you unzip or vent something. Wear mine under a long sleeve windstopper jersey mostly.

And a primaloft gilet for descents and setting off / stopping. As mentioned above keep it accessible.

And Polartec alpha direct stuff is great for the cold too - like a light weight buffalo jacket. Regulates temp really well without getting too sweaty. Also have a cycling cap made of it that is my cold go to.

[fatbikephil]

Also been experimenting, following on from my 'foot' thread. Merino HH top and Paramo velez light on top, with a fleece gillet available for an extra layer if needed. Felt nice and warm at -9 but the back of the velez was very wet when I got home - an indicator of how well it wicks moisture away but would freeze if I stopped outside. Think I just needed to vent it a bit. I recall the SWB in '17 when it was around -10 ploughing up the argo cat flattened snow. When I got to the bothy I bunged on my down jacket but this got soaked within a few minutes from vapour rising off my body. I was wearing a buffalo though which are very warm - -10 or less!

So I think that's the trick as mentioned - keep yourself from getting too warm when riding, using vents or removing layers and try to cool off when you approach a stop; then bung on a warm jacket.

2 days before the Rov 150 I went out in -25 and piled loads of clothes on. Within 10 minutes I was overheating and removed stuff to basically the above - plenty warm enough.

For legs I'm using either Endura humvee trousers or Paramos. The Paramos are warmer but I needed long johns as well last night. Odd knee issues are currently precluding anything tight on my legs.

[Alpinum]

Generally you need to balance three things:
the environment (i.e. temperature)
your level of effort
your clothing.

And your energy levels.

If you want a cold night, no matter how much or little below freezing (or above), no matter how warm your gear, arrive at a bivy spot low on energy or even slightly bonked and fail to eat or think one or two of those squashed slices of cake or whatever you find will be enough. A superb recipe for a night that will leave you drained the next day and wanting to get home as fast as possible.

Not sure if this has been mentioned here; hoods
Many of my clothing for winter riding have hoods. Superb to regulate temps. I wear a thin hat or buff and when cold pull the hood(s) up, when heating up, hood(s) down. Nothing to pack away, can be adjusted (even a non adjustable hood can be adjusted as long as your garment has a zip). Usually I go with two hoods. One from a fleece jumper, or from my Alpha smock and, if wind has picked up or feeling a bit cold otherwise, the hood from the lightweight windproof.

This forum currently reminds me of bike mags;
Ever year, when temps drop, the same questions revolving riding in the 'cold' show up.
Only difference - mags cover this topic a month earlier
I've not yet found out what's faster; quickly writing what runs through my mind or use the search function on here to find an old post to quote, which basically gives the same answer.

[whitestone]

Yeah, you've got to keep the boiler burning. Last year's ITI was an out and back on the short course - Jay Petavary and Jacob Hora (only 17yrs old) were planning on being self-supporting but underestimated the food requirements so ended up using huts/cafés - there's a YouTube video of their race plus others about preparation and recap.

The main thing with hoods is whether or not you are wearing a helmet, if you are then the helmet needs to adjust to accommodate the hood. I've found a thin merino balaclava to be warmer than a thick neck buff and skull cap so that concurs with a hood being warm. Probably the lack of draught around the back of the head and ears.

[Bearbonesnorm]

I'm very much with Gian regarding hoods - can make a massive difference.

Anyone ever go in the opposite direction from layering and wear something like a Buffalo / Montane Extreme which is often worn with little underneath and ventilated to regulate temp?

[Alpinum]

I'm very much with Gian regarding hoods - can make a massive difference.

Anyone ever go in the opposite direction from layering and wear something like a Buffalo / Montane Extreme which is often worn with little underneath and ventilated to regulate temp?

Been doing that for >20 years if it's really cold and stays that way;

Montane Extreme smock (slightly modded) and long sleeve poly pro, at belays puffy over all of it. Same for riding bikes. Once I stop the mid weight or heavy weight down jacket over it.

After shredding the smock to bits I used a very fluffy fleece jumper (again, modded to fit my torso) and the lovely but discontinued Rab Pertex Equilibrium (light?) smock. Just plain face fabric, no lining. Modded that a little to (made vents out of the otherwise well placed pockets). After a bunch of year, the fleece jumper broke down...

Enter Patagonia Nano Air smock. Again, thin layers, the Nano smock and if windy, the Rab P.E. smock. Use it from about -10 - -30°C (haven't been in anything colder lately).
The great thing is, the Nano Air hold of a bit of wind, but breathes comparable to a regular fleece. If I'm starting to feel a bit cold, eg during descending or on top somewhere, I don the Rab garment to boost.
For stops, same as usual, mid or thick puffy.

I can not wear this type of gear above double digit freezing though, too warm for me.
Love the hoods of the Nano Air and Rab P.E. super adjustable.

if you are then the helmet needs to adjust to accommodate the hood.

I never came across a non adjustable helmet. Do you mean the range of adjustment must fit your naked head as well as one covered with a hood? Well obv. this also needs to be the case with hats, balaclavas etc.

[fatbikephil]

My buffalo was ace for XC skiing in Rothiemurchus in Dec 2009 at -15 to -20. Too warm above -15 on the bike. The paramo velez is a far better prospect with a thicker base layer and waterproof too for those lovely sleety days...

[jameso]

I do go on about them this time of year but primaloft gilets work so well for me and still do in the current cold (-2 to -5 early or late). They're warm but as a layer it's loftier/deeper than 2 jersey layers that would have similar core warmth, so the gilet has more space for the temperature gradient to work. I think that's why they manage heat and moisture combined well. I tend to have mostly dry inner lining and cold damp outer layer on my gilet after a ride at the moment. I can get up a sweat as always there seems to be a good sweetspot of range of temp and comfort. Pile lined jackets can be similar but tend to be too warm for me to ride in. A gilet is great as it lets your arms radiate heat and doesn't get too warm around your armpits. I add a windproof if there's a cold wind but otherwise it's a jersey and a thin base layer if cold, then the gilet.

Montane extreme stuff is great for the coldest conditions I've known on dawn scrambles in Snowdonia (similar to how it is currently, maybe -5 or a bit below that), with just a thin base layer under it, but too much for riding in for general UK winter cold. Might be ok for Scotland/Idita/Arrowhead sort of riding. Tried it on the bike one winter w/o anything under it and it was was a bit drafty at times!

[Lazarus]

Where is it worn external or under a jacket ?
Have a paramo analogy one so fancy trying this.

No idea what the temp would need to be for me to wear my paramo Velez jacket and trousers on a bike but colder than I get ( and or go out in ) here for sure. Highland gear that I reckon

[ton]

just been out for 3 nice chilly hours with the wife.
i was wearing a bamboo t shirt, a alpkit griffon fleece hoodie and a paramo velez jacket. bloody lovely and cosy. not too sweaty.
mrs was wearing a EDZ merino base layer, a griffon fleece hoodie and a Rab vapour rise jacket. again toasty
we were both comfy enough to sit outside at a 'Spoons' for 30 mins supping coffee.

i also carry a decathlon padded gillet in my saddle bag, after this was recommended by @jameso on a thread a few years ago.
cost me a tenner in a sale, it is perfect for cold emergencies, and packs down to a man size fist.

[fatbikephil]

Where is it worn external or under a jacket ?
Have a paramo analogy one so fancy trying this.

Both. I've a buffalo teclite gillet which I wore underneath the velez smock on Tuesday - worked well. I've also dragged it on, on top of a paramo jacket to save faffing and it alos gives an instant extra bit of warmth.

I'd agree with Jameso, gillets are great bits of kit - even my weedy BB one makes a difference if pulled on over a thermal top to keep the breeze off your torso.

Thinking about this, And Jeffs photo of the ponys in that Wales getting hammered with snow, we humans are crap really, even with all this fancy gear. If you get wet and it's zub zero, your basically stuffed whereas a polar bear can jump in the arctic ocean and out again no probs. So maybe we just need a fur coat (and to eat three seals a day)

[Bearbonesnorm]

Thinking about this, And Jeffs photo of the ponys in that Wales getting hammered with snow, we humans are crap really, even with all this fancy gear. If you get wet and it's zub zero, your basically stuffed whereas a polar bear can jump in the arctic ocean and out again no probs. So maybe we just need a fur coat (and to eat three seals a day)

Yep we really are crap - can't do cold, hot, wet, dry. I'm amazed we ever got this far and if it wasn't for our thumb I'm sure we wouldn't have.

[Lazarus]

Cheers re gillet will give iit a try but it's rarely my torso that is cold.

You both undersell us; we can live in all conditions ?.it's just that we moan about the weather whether it's snow, heat or rain.

[Bearbonesnorm]

You both undersell us; we can live in all conditions ?

I don't see many folk making like Phil's Polar bear and telling you about it

[benp1]

I carry gilets on nearly all my rides, they work really well and pack down small. Normal windproof in normal conditions and then an insulated one when it's cooler. Really liking my OMM Rotor vest. It's the lightest insulated gilet I own, and easily as warm as some of the heavier ones I have

I was toasty warm on a ride in Lapland for a few hours - had thin base layer, very light powergrid top and a buffalo shirt over the top. Had leggings and Haglofs rugged mountain troos on my bottom half. I was surprised how OK I was temperature wise, though it was an e bike so I was going fairly steady. I might have struggled on an overnight though, I had frost and icicles on my eyebrows (and some eyelashes), plus my beard - wouldn't have been much fun with that melting into my sleeping bag