I don't get this at all (event)

restlessshawn · Post by **restlessshawn** » Fri Jul 28, 2017 12:13 pm

https://bikepackingscotland.yapsody.com ... ding-party

It's basically £35 for a campsite for the night?

Also the Ale Water Valley is clearly a made up place

dlovett · Post by **dlovett** » Fri Jul 28, 2017 12:36 pm

What a great way to make money though, I should try that down here!

Bearbonesnorm · Post by **Bearbonesnorm** » Fri Jul 28, 2017 12:54 pm

I realise it's 'Cheery Friday' not 'Grumpy Monday' but the bit I don't get is this:

Whereas most bikepacking events are fully self-supported, the Reiver Riding Party is perfect if you are not yet comfortable with the no-support philosophy. You can ride a wonderful route with the ease of knowing that there'll be a space to camp in the evening, a toilet, fresh water and others to socialise and talk bikes.

I'm all for ecouraging folk but can't it be done in a way that doesn't include sanitising and hand-holding? You're not helping people by making things 'easy', you're actually taking something from them, depriving them of the very things that make bikepacking both what it is and what makes it so good. People not comfortable with the no-support philosophy won't ever become comfortable if you don't let them.

Self-reliant, self-supported, self-abuse ... keep bikepacking real!

restlessshawn · Post by **restlessshawn** » Fri Jul 28, 2017 1:05 pm

Exactly, it's about as safe and easy as it gets round here anyway. No vast distances between shops, pubs etc and loads of places to just camp up where you are actually allowed anyway since it's Scotland.

Something like the WRT is surely better for a newbie, lots of other people about so no one is going to let you starve to death in a ditch but you are still doing your own thing...and there is cake and tea.

Sorry for the Grump Friday tone, should of waited till Monday. Maybe I am extra puzzled by it as it passes within 50 metres of my house...actually you can camp in my garden if you like

voodoo_simon · Post by **voodoo_simon** » Fri Jul 28, 2017 1:21 pm

I think it's good idea.

Putting the cost to one side, the idea of riding you bike with your kit on but knowing there's a camp site with beers waiting sounds like a great introduction to bikepacking.

Now, I really don't like campsites but a lot of people do and they'll be happy to have a definite place to sleep at the end of the first days ride. Perhaps after doing this event, they'll go onto a wild camp on the next trip.

In my simplest view, the more people on bikes, the better

jamiep · Post by **jamiep** » Fri Jul 28, 2017 1:28 pm

A good intro for those that are new to such things. But I am disappointed by this: originally there was to be a minibus meet people at the train station to ferry their sleeping kit to the camp site ready for after the first day's ride. There is now no mention of this and so one has to carry kit along the route. This would have been a big plus for those doing this for the first time

restlessshawn · Post by **restlessshawn** » Fri Jul 28, 2017 1:32 pm

voodoo_simon wrote:Putting the cost to one side

In a nutshell I think that's the part I don't understand

PaulB2 · Post by **PaulB2** » Fri Jul 28, 2017 1:38 pm

jamiep wrote:A good intro for those that are new to such things. But I am disappointed by this: originally there was to be a minibus meet people at the train station to ferry their sleeping kit to the camp site ready for after the first day's ride. There is now no mention of this and so one has to carry kit along the route. This would have been a big plus for those doing this for the first time

I can't work out if you're being facetious or not.

Bearbonesnorm · Post by **Bearbonesnorm** » Fri Jul 28, 2017 1:47 pm

Perhaps after doing this event, they'll go onto a wild camp on the next trip.

... and next time they'll be able to say they've been bikepacking.

In my simplest view, the more people on bikes, the better

Quality not quantity.

ctznsmith · Post by **ctznsmith** » Fri Jul 28, 2017 1:54 pm

Is it not similar to the Gravel dash 50/50 where Charlie arranges a campsite half way round?

Not my thing but if people are prepared to pay. `\_('_')_/`

restlessshawn · Post by **restlessshawn** » Fri Jul 28, 2017 2:09 pm

ctznsmith wrote:Is it not similar to the Gravel dash 50/50 where Charlie arranges a campsite half way round?

Not my thing but if people are prepared to pay. `\_('_')_/`

For similar money yeah but that's a signed route, with catering provided at the stop and in a country where wild camping is not allowed so people might like the organised 'wild' camp part

jamiep · Post by **jamiep** » Fri Jul 28, 2017 3:03 pm

PaulB2 wrote: I can't work out if you're being facetious or not. :grin:

It absolutely sounds like I am but I am not. This is designed/marketed for people totally new to bikepacking / camping after a day riding bikes, the route is the simplest of off-road paths, quiet roads and bridleways (I rode it earlier this week to see what was what). Having such people lug their gear (almost certainly heavy, bulky, too much stuff) around all day will only detract from their enjoyment

edit: day one does a loop around to finish near the start, day two starts at the same place and loops round to again finish at the same place - why on earth would one new to such things expect to carry their stuff right back to where they started?

ScotRoutes · Post by **ScotRoutes** » Fri Jul 28, 2017 3:17 pm

I quite like this. I had a similar idea (though just a little less organised) - a two day loop with a semi-organised camping spot. The numbers might dictate some sort of toilet facility and somewhere/something to socialise round in the evening.

There's previously been a mass bivvy as part of Tweedlove, this looks like an extension of that.

jamiep · Post by **jamiep** » Fri Jul 28, 2017 3:22 pm

I attended the first Tweedlove bivvy 3(?) years ago. That was free. Basically a guided ride and kip out, but certainly 'proper' mountain biking terrain and clear that one must be self supported (not supported by the guide)

AlasdairMc · Post by **AlasdairMc** » Fri Jul 28, 2017 3:24 pm

I've commented before on this sort of thing, and the monetisation of self supported riding doesn't quite sit right with me, but I can see what he's trying to achieve here. It's an unsupported ride for new bikepackers, almost dumbing it down to an acceptable beginner level, but without the support and cost of a dedicated training course.

We often balk at the cost of an introductory bikepacking course, from our high horses, but they do seem to make a lot of sense if you're time poor and cash rich.

I think here we've got an unsupported event with campsite (and liability insurance - hooray!) so it straddles a beginner ride and a two day event, but trying to please both. The campsite and toilet is a wise idea from a responsible access perspective, given that you may not expect a complete novice to know nor respect the outdoor code - see litter at trail centres for example. If you know the outdoors code and are happy wild camping - you're not the target audience - and therefore nor would you pay £35 to do what you do for free already.

I do think though that the route as described is a bit tough for a novice. 170km and 4000m is West Highland Way territory, and for most that's a challenging ride over two days.

Bearbonesnorm · Post by **Bearbonesnorm** » Fri Jul 28, 2017 3:26 pm

why on earth would one new to such things expect to carry their stuff right back to where they started?

Bikepacking ... surely the clue's in the name?

This is similar to when people say they've been "downhilling". When one asks where, they say some trail-centre somewhere. It turns out the similarity between what they've done and downhilling ... begins and ends with a hill.

mountainbaker · Post by **mountainbaker** » Fri Jul 28, 2017 3:43 pm

Monetize everything.

Wantrepreneurs.

Bicycle Camping startups.

Global Thermonuclear War.

*Cheery Friday

restlessshawn · Post by **restlessshawn** » Fri Jul 28, 2017 4:02 pm

I need this hat

: 20476089_1545828392146856_8286166064829634860_n.jpg (325.27 KiB) Viewed 3517 times

Bearbonesnorm · Post by **Bearbonesnorm** » Fri Jul 28, 2017 4:06 pm

That is a superb hat

Cheeky Monkey · Post by **Cheeky Monkey** » Fri Jul 28, 2017 4:15 pm

Whatever happened to just going out and having a stab at stuff? Backpacking seems to be one of the easier / more accessible things where folks can do it so why the need to eased into it with so many "courses" and "events". It's not like it's Alpine mountaineering

Hey ho

mountainbaker · Post by **mountainbaker** » Fri Jul 28, 2017 4:16 pm

#outsideisfree #aslongasyoupay

ScotRoutes · Post by **ScotRoutes** » Fri Jul 28, 2017 4:23 pm

Here's a thought. If you don't like it, don't join it.

Gotta say that Markus is doing his damndest to make a living out of bikepacking and he's spotted what I think is a gap in the market. There are already all sorts of led/supported events on-road and off-road, I don't think it diminishes those who just "vontobealone".

restlessshawn · Post by **restlessshawn** » Fri Jul 28, 2017 4:32 pm

I'm going to take that in the jovial nature I am sure it was meant...

But yeah it's obviously not aimed at me is it.

psling · Post by **psling** » Fri Jul 28, 2017 4:42 pm

The question for me always comes back to "what is bikepacking?". The word is relatively new but the concept isn't.
To me, that concept is a state of mind.
It is a desire to get out there under my own steam, to explore, to change plans along the way, to be self-sufficient (even if that includes stopping at the Spar).

I know a lot of people on here do ITTs and the like which is a deviation from my ideal these days but still self-supported and still 'bikepacking'.

As we've discussed before, it was only a matter of time before supported 'bikepacking' events sprung up since the genre has caught the eye of the marketing men - we have adventure bikes, no end of bikepacking bags and kit, so why not supported events? At the end of the day it's all riding bikes and hopefully will bring enjoyment and fulfillment to those paying to take part. I can ride across the country by my own route and by my own plans or do a 100km road loop of my own design but that doesn't stop hundreds, thousands of people paying to join a charity corporate ride or a sportive.

The event above doesn't fit my idea of what bikepacking is all about but it's just a word really; a relatively new word too. How do you put a state of mind into just one word!?!

Cheeky Monkey · Post by **Cheeky Monkey** » Fri Jul 28, 2017 4:43 pm

ScotRoutes wrote:Here's a thought. If you don't like it, don't join it.

Gotta say that Markus is doing his damndest to make a living out of bikepacking and he's spotted what I think is a gap in the market. There are already all sorts of led/supported events on-road and off-road, I don't think it diminishes those who just "vontobealone".

Dude, it's just wondering about stuff on an internet forum, not setting up an industrial espionage team to ruin his business

Do you need a panda?

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