Brutal Off-Road Climbs - South / Mid Wales

[Bearbonesnorm]

Obviously I can't train the altitude

Could you not tape your mouth and one nostril shut?

[Ian]

Obviously I can't train the altitude

Could you not tape your mouth and one nostril shut?

[Dave Barter]

Personally I think some decent hill intervals will do more for your climbing and VO2 max that hefting a brick up a long climb

[AlanG]

The Leadville Trail 100.

[DoctorRad]

DoctorRad, the route you describe is fantastic and mostly rideable apart from a few short steep sections...

Thanks Alan. Bike choice? I'm guessing a full-on mountain bike (as opposed to gravel) will make things a lot more rideable?

[Richard G]

Personally I think some decent hill intervals will do more for your climbing and VO2 max that hefting a brick up a long climb

I'm constantly doing intervals (I do 6+ hours a week on the turbo). What I need is not physical strength or fitness, but mental strength.

I've plateaued a bit over the last training block, so now it's time to try something a bit different.

[Scattamah]

If you're already doing turbo, raise the front a little further, turn your trainer resistance up high, put your bike in a high gear and grind it out for a few hours. I find putting on a movie to distract me works when I do this or find videos on YT to learn sections of the course and memorise them, eg. watch the best and their lines.

The mental part is all about how badly you really want to (a) win; (b) not come last; or (c) finish.

Greetz

S.

[Bearbonesnorm]

I'm not entirely convinced the 'mental side' really comes from riding a bike ... fitness will only get you so far.

[Richard G]

It's all about knowing my weaknesses really. On a trainer I never really stop because I know the power targets I have to hit and I can objectively measure all the variables and know where I am. In the real world, whilst I'm capable of pushing myself harder for shorter periods, the temptation to back off is always too great, and obviously even the worst hills only last half hour in most of Wales, so you know you're only going to be suffering for a short while. Plus I generally always leave a little in the tank.

I want to know that I can work near my pain / lactate threshold in the real world for periods much longer than I'm used to. I've found I came back from rides like the YD300 and and 2015's BB200 significantly tougher psychologically than I was before them. Now I can't spare days at a time to do rides like that... but I can try and compress what I hated most about them into rides a couple of hours long.

Edit - ...and no, I'm not bloody doing singlespeed. My knees are fragile enough as it is.

[Ian]

I'm constantly doing intervals

I've plateaued a bit over the last training block

Hmmm

[Richard G]

It's all part of a mix. Not exactly going to write out my entire training plan in here! My point was more that I don't think I've got much more left in me, FTP increase wise, so I'm starting to look at other methods for improvements. Such as strength and skill work (and obviously the whole mental toughness side).

But for what it's worth, right now I'm back to doing base work again (probably the next couple of months) before I start gearing up to event specific fitness blocks again.

[voodoo_simon]

Ignorant question but why are you riding turbo for what (I think) is a mountain bike race?

Surely riding you bike outside with heavier tyres than the race tyres will be better training?

[Richard G]

Not necessarily, no. If you're working at near your maximum for very specific intervals / timings / heart rates / power outputs to target different fitness aspects; it's unlikely you'll be able to do it as effectively in the real world (which has breaks where you might not want them, gates, lights, traffic, descents etc). This even more so in this case as I can't replicate the hills I'll be facing (not even close), nor the fact that I can't train at altitude without leaving the country or paying some insane amount to work in an altitude chamber. Plus there's the time factor. I don't have nearly as much time to ride as many here, so I need to train smarter rather than longer.

Edit - ...and this is just me, but I find that sometimes I'll take it that little bit easier I'm out riding. Back it off 10% here, take a quick break at that gate there etc. You don't get that luxury when you're working to power for a set time. Needless to say, everyone is different in that respect... but I generally ride for enjoyment. I sure as hell don't enjoy training.

Of course, not spending any time in the real world working on skills etc would be stupid, but that's not the case here. In this case I just fancy testing myself against some particularly nasty hills to see how I hold up mentally.

(Also, I hope this thread doesn't degenerate into arguments about training / just getting out on your bike and enjoying it etc. It's been done, and it was tedious last time too. )

[AlanG]

How long are you going to be at altitude in Colorado before race day?

[voodoo_simon]

That's fair enough, I won't mention it again. Last time I went to the alps, I singlespeeded everywhere and blew the roadies out of the water (to be fair, I had twenty years on them )

Can sympathise with you on lack of training time, family take up a lot of time. Off to Finland next month for a 300km race and the longest ride I've done since October is 80km/4 hours

Good luck with those hill climbs

[Bearbonesnorm]

I think Ian's onto something with the Everesting. Surely, that's going to be a greater test of mental resilience than a single long hill ... it's the seemingly futile nature of it, that makes it dificult, whereas riding up one big hill is a simple test with an immedite reward ... so, it keeps your chimp happy.

There was some big old climbs on the TN that you gauged in hours not minutes but they weren't 'that bad'. Had someone said you must ride a third of the way up, turn round and do it again - and again - and again, my resolve would have struggled.

[Richard G]

Everesting would just completely ruin my training schedule / recovery as I'd have used up pretty much all my TSS in a single day. Plus if I really wanted to suffer with the most mind numbing ride imaginable then I might as well do it on the turbo.

How long are you going to be at altitude in Colorado before race day?

Just over a week. I'd like longer, but I have a business to run.

[Ian]

Everesting would just completely ruin my training schedule / recovery as I'd have used up pretty much all my TSS in a single day. Plus if I really wanted to suffer with the most mind numbing ride imaginable then I might as well do it on the turbo.

You don't have to go all the way to 8,848m
Stu is right, if you want to test mental capacity/ resolve, do something quite hard and repetitive. Some very fit and experienced riders have tried Everesting and failed before the halfway point. They still learnt a lot about themselves in the process. Do 10 reps of Devils Elbow and see how you get on with the concept

On the TSS point, do you not think the Leadville 100 isn't going need a high TSS effort? Testing your body out to a high level in a controlled environment would seem sensible to me.
It's not for me to comment either way on your plan - be it home spun or via a cycling coach - but as a passing observation you seem to be doing quite a bit of training already, e.g. 6 hours/ week on the turbo + other riding, so I'd have thought a big effort after a rest week (you do take rest weeks, right?), should allow you to keep training load under control.

[Richard G]

I have high TSS efforts planned in all year. Not taking anything away from the achievement, but there's precisely nothing about Everesting that appeals to me. I'll knock one out just for you guys next year when I've got some space in my trainer calendar.

On road only though, I'm not as crazy as you!

This thread is just about wanting some hills that will take me at least an hour (weight assisted), simply because I want to test myself against something I've never done before. I do have a little experience with multiple hours of threshold / VO2max intervals with no meaningful break, though not quite at the 12+ hour mark (Mine was 10 hours worth). I have a good amount to work with now, so I'll leave the thread at that and get on with it.

[Chew]

but there's precisely nothing about Everesting that appeals to me.

I think that's Ian's point

I'd be wary of training to your strengths, but ignoring your weaknesses.
You can be in the best physical shape possible, but if your heads not in it......

[Richard G]

Oh I get it, absolutely. I just wouldn't put myself to it so it would be largely pointless.

[dlovett]

I'll hold him while you do it Stu.

Actually that might help even things up for the B150. I get a mouth and nose, he gets just one nostril.

Obviously I can't train the altitude

Could you not tape your mouth and one nostril shut?

[Richard G]

[ianfitz]

According to a sport scientist I know training in altitude simulation is tricky, expensive and doesn't last long if living in the U.K.

But heat acclimatisation is more straightforward. Cheap and lasts a little longer too.

If you are using a turbo, in the last few weeks turn off the fan, heat the room and raise the humidity. A couple of sessions a week will help you adapt pretty well.

Im a participant in his study in to heat acclimatisation strategies, next session is an hour on the turbo at 35c and 50% humidity. Nice

[Richard G]

Thankfully the heat should be a fairly pleasant 20c or thereabout. I just wont be able to breathe.

...and I've had to do trainer sessions in the winter without a fan (because turning the fan on was agony), and that was bad enough. Screw doing it in a hot room!