650b+ / 27.5 plus on a Genesis Fortitude?

[JackT]

Anyone using 650b+ / 27.5 plus on a Genesis Fortitude? Is there sufficient clearance, width-wise? How did it ride?

I'm looking at ridding myself of the stock Alfine 11 hub gear and wondering if smaller wheels and fatter tyres might be a good move as well.

Any advice or suggestions appreciated.

thanks,

Jack

[DoctorRad]

Someone else with one! I assume you've got a Fortitude Adventure since you've got an Alfine 11 on the rear? I love mine with drop bars and 47mm Smart Sams, it's my go-to / house fire bike.

A few thoughts:

How are you going to get rid of the Alfine without a gear hanger unless you go singlespeed or get new dropouts? Why do want rid of it?

The stock rear wheel is built with DT Alpine spokes, which are 13g (~2.3mm) for most of their length, and then go to 14g (2.0mm) at the nipples. I found this out recently when I had a broken spoke and needed to re-true. Given that with the Alfine hub the rear wheel is essentially dishless, you could go to 14-15-14g or even 14-16-14g (Revolution) spokes with little if any loss of strength, and shed a reasonable amount of weight in the process.

If you really want to know if 650b+ typres will fit, I suggest you go along to and enlightened shop who have the right wheels in stock and have a test fit. You may need some 'flared' forks on the front to increase the mud room, such as the Surly ECR or Karate Monkey, but check the axle-crown and trail measurements to check the geometry won't be screwed too much - unless you want to change the geometry, of course. As for the rear, do a test fit - suck it and see!

Finally, if you want to get rid of your Alfine 11 rear wheel, assuming it's in good condition (especially the hub), I'd be interested in buying it.

Cheers,

Dr. Matt...

[JackT]

How are you going to get rid of the Alfine without a gear hanger unless you go singlespeed or get new dropouts? Why do want rid of it?

I've found the bike over-geared with the Alfine, especially when loaded, and I'm getting a bit of slipping on some ratios, and a sponginess on others. I'm going to give it a final go, lowering the gearing with a bigger sprocket, though I am aware this is not what Shimano recommend, as an excess of torque can damage the hub. Chain tugs with mech hangers are available for rear-facing dropouts. Not ideal, and a bit of hassle when you need to remove the wheel.

[DoctorRad]

I bought the bike from a guy who had lowered the gear ratios, and I'm pretty happy with them as they are now. The torque limits are probably for people stronger than you or I, so I'd take them with a pinch of salt unless you are riding very heavily loaded.

You'll not get rid of the sponginess in certain gears, it's the price you pay for a hub gear, but I've found that careful set-up - and apparently more use - has reduced the slippage to no more than I'd expect from a cassette set-up.

[Artie Fufkin]

Have to agree with The Doctor.
I'm running 30/ 23 on my Alfine 11, not had a problem at all. As said before The sponginess is part of the "Alfine experience" and one that's not going to go away, especially in the lower gears.
Keep it well adjusted/ indexed and it should be good to go!
I personally can trade off all of these points against a derailleur system.
Keep on keeping on!

[darbeze]

I have the Fortitude Race and run X King 2.4" front and rear with no problems. I too have been curious about wider rubber on smaller wheels.

Luckily, I am good friends with the owner of my LBS, so I have been able to try this out.

I took the rear wheel from a 2106 Longtitude, which is 27.5 with a 2.8 WTB tyre on it. It fits in the frame and you can even turn the pedals when the bike is in the work stand, but the is only about 1-2mm clearance each side. I reckon in real life riding, the action of pedalling with any level of effort would make the tyre rub on the chain stays and there is zero room for any mud build up.

So, it does fit, but not with enough room to actually work when riding...

Shame though. Guess it means I will have to buy a 2017 Longtitude frame set to build up gradually into a 1x10/11 3" tired monster build....

[DoctorRad]

... only about 1-2mm clearance each side...

Gwan, that'll be fine in gravel / dusty conditions #looksoutofwindow

I'm liking the look of the Longitude, mind... wonder what it would be like with drops...

[Fat tyre kicker]

My mate has a 2016 Longitude, lovely bike, we swapped for a while on
A rideout the other week and was very impressed with it, even with huge Stooge
Bars on it felt planted and manageable ( I'm used to 710 loops)
@Darbeze, have they launched details of the framesets yet,I've not seen anything ?

[Fat tyre kicker]

EDIT ;
I hadn't realised it's out there, looks ace especially in the older colourway.....hmmm

[Bearbonesnorm]

Very glad to see they've dropped the aluminium fork. IMO it really did detract from the 2016 model.

[darbeze]

I'm going to be trying one out after Christmas. I believe I am even allowed to get it dirty...

I shall report back with my thoughts. I am hopeful of good things...

Si

[DoctorRad]

Now the steel forks are back (and with a £100 price drop) I'm almost at the 'shut up and take my money' stage... if I had any just now...! I assume the 2017 has a straight 1-1/8" headtube? That might restrict boingy fork options?

[JackT]

thanks all - good and very useful advice. suspect it's probably worth sticking with it, lowering the gearing, hoping the hub settles in (only about 1000 miles on it so far, and I've just done the oil change thing) and trying out a few different tyre choices.

while you're there DoctorRad, what kind of shifter do you use with drop bars? the jtek bar end?

[jameso]

Jack, I just looked this up as I remember a similar Q about the fork a while back, my answer was

Just looked up the fork drawing .. the amount of stuff I have filed on this laptop. 80mm clearance at a point 45mm below the underside of the crown. Axle to underside of crown is 406mm.

So from that you should get a Trailblazer in the front, as a guide the Ramin 3+ seat stays have 83-84mm clearance at that distance from the axle.
There's a few options in the 2.6-2.7" range due next year that would be good on a 35mm rim for an almost-plus option, but they look to be at the Enduro end of things. I'd like to see some 2.6 Speed Kings and Nanos..

[DoctorRad]

I use the Versa shifter that NorwayCalling had put on it when I bought it from him. Works very well, other than the fact that it's only one gear at a time in either direction, and the throw when down (easier gear) shifting is quite long, so multiple down shifts have to be done well in advance. Also, the cable comes out of the side, which could make front-mounting luggage difficult. The original brakes were swapped for BB7 Road, which have been as reliable as the MTB counterparts I run on several bikes, and can be set up in two minutes per end once you know what you're doing.

If you've only got 1,000 miles on the hub, give it some time. I have found that the shifting cable is either slipping or stretching over time, which means that the barrel adjuster at the lever is now at its limit. That said, the number of graunches has reduced over time, I must be approaching 1,000 miles since February by now, so need to get an oil change kit.

Have a look at the Cycling UK (ex-CTC) forum, there's loads of discussion and advice for the Alfine 11 over there. Some people found that shifting works best when the yellow dots consisently aren't lined up, but I've not found this to be the case. I just check the alignment before every ride, and in the middle if I'm feeling paranoid.

One thing to look out for: over time the 'bellows' near the rear hub can stretch[1] and when you are up-shifting it can get jammed in the groove which the cable goes through, causing a mis-shift. This currently happens when shifting between gears 9 to 10 in my set-up.

[1] especially if you use the wrong lube, apparently, but what the 'right' lube is, Shimano don't specify.

[DoctorRad]

There's a few options in the 2.6-2.7" range due next year that would be good on a 35mm rim for an almost-plus option, but they look to be at the Enduro end of things. I'd like to see some 2.6 Speed Kings and Nanos..

Schwalble have Smart Sams in 650b x 2.6", plus G-ONE Allround Gravel in 650b x 2.8"

[jameso]

Had seen the 2.8 G-one, there's a Supermoto 2.8 also, but not the Smart Sam..

[DoctorRad]

Smart Sam

The original gravel tyre. Discuss.

[jameso]

Dunno TBH : ) Looks XC more than gravelly. Maybe OG is the Nano.

[rich.mike]

Ohhh the 2017 model looks great, been looking for something a bit more BB friendly, my Cube reaction is far too racy and stiff. A nice steel frame will match the Surly LHT. With fatter tyres I have no excuses not to do the winter event

I hope Evans in town stocks them, I'd like to sit on one for size before purchase. Time to finally use the cycle to work scheme!

[rich.mike]

I'm struggling a bit with sizing on the fortitude, I'm not sure if I'm a medium or a large. I'm 6 foot with a 33 inch leg, does anyone have experience with these?

Can't get one into the local store unless I put cash down, but I'm planning on using the cycle to work scheme...

[DoctorRad]

I'm struggling a bit with sizing on the fortitude, I'm not sure if I'm a medium or a large...

Do you mean the Longitude? They don't make Fortitudes any more I don't think...

[Fat tyre kicker]

If it is the Longitude you're on about,I would say Large,my mate has one and
He's 6'2"....I'm 5'11" and hoping to order a large (frame only) in Jan.

[rich.mike]

Yep sorry, longitude! Talked to another small local bike store and they're bringing a large in this Friday for me to try out :D

[DoctorRad]

Genesis 2016 Tarn 10 and Longitude now down to £799: http://www.genesisbikes.co.uk/mtbsale/