Rant - Leave no Trace

[Richard G]

My commute takes me past a KFC, McDonalds etc etc and the litter near these places is unbelievable

There's a section of the taff trail that makes me incandescent because of this. I bet I can show you the rubbish on street view... hang on...

Here you go: https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.75111 ... 56!6m1!1e1

...and that's fairly mild by standards around there. Disgusting.

[Bearbonesnorm]

I once had a very heated exchange on another cycling forum with a chap who by his own admission didn't litter ... yet, who thought it was fine to drop gel / bar wrappers during an event as there would be people to pick them up. He really didn't like beig told that these 'litter pickers' were volunteers there to keep riders safe and on course ... and not his mum.

[whitestone]

Sadly it's part of the consumer society: "I've used it, no longer have a need for it, therefore it isn't my problem". We are fortunate to live in a rural location but even here there's masses of litter from fast food outlets through to fly tipping. The latter has increased due in part to councils charging ever more to commercial users of landfill sites so cowboy builders do a job and just dump the resulting waste at the roadside.

A few years ago I was out running and noticed a car tyre by the side of the road, then another, then another. Over the course of about a Km there was a discarded tyre roughly every 20 metres, someone had obviously driven along with a flatbed truck with a mate in the back chucking the tyres off as they went along.

Stu: our club organises a sportive each year in the Yorkshire Dales and for the last three years I've been sweeper - sum total of five items over the three years that I could definitely associate with the event.

The thing with littering is that you don't notice good behaviour because of course there's nothing there to see, you only see the results of bad behaviour.

[Scud]

Round near me (north Norfolk coast) there does seem to be a lot of "Wild Camping" and "Microadventures" groups popping up mostly on FB, these seem to compromise of two types of people.

- People who have watched far too much Ray Mears (not really a bad thing) and too much Bear Grylls (definitely a bad thing) and think that survival for one night 2 miles from home involves a feck off big knife, an axe, a tarp so big it can be seen from the ISS and a fire to cook your full english on, usually with the contents of your one night stay supported by a 100 litre bergen. All kit must be DPM.

- "Microadventurers" near me this seems to be mostly bored housewives and some guys who like to go out as a group again with enough kit that they struggle to walk, bottles of wine and a bag of fire wood, this usually comprises getting out of there car, walking 100yds in to the sand dunes getting rat-arsed, taking a load of selfies in their onesies and then talking about the vaguely exciting-ness of Wild Camping on Facebook for 3 months..

I have tried joining in with some of these groups and suggested actually leaving the flat lands and venturing to Wales or the Peaks, no-one wanted to go as they realised they couldn't carry their gear more than a mile and it involved exercise.

[RIP]

"mostly bored housewives" - er, Scud, you couldn't possibly elaborate with a few more details (*) preferably by PM please?

"Reg"

(*) you know, like phone numbers and whatnot. I have a enormous bottom bracket if that helps.

[Pirahna]

Just had a look on Facebook for the bored housewives you mention.

[Scud]

Just had a look on Facebook for the bored housewives you mention.

There was a reason i joined the groups in the first instance!!

[Yorlin]

Sadly I've just missed a good stooshie about someone "bothying" in in a birdwatching hide, in the Bike'n'bivi group

I'm gutted I missed it as I know exactly where he'd been.

[Bearbonesnorm]

Sadly I've just missed a good stooshie about someone "bothying" in in a birdwatching hide, in the Bike'n'bivi group

I think I may have had something to do with that going adrift

[Yorlin]

I miss all the good stuff! Any highlights?!

[cyclingtiger]

Stu: our club organises a sportive each year in the Yorkshire Dales and for the last three years I've been sweeper - sum total of five items over the three years that I could definitely associate with the event.

I've spoken to event organisers for sportives and triathlons. One of the reasons they get so insistent about not littering to participants is the amount of flack that they get, even for littering that is nothing to do with the event. One even got a long winded complaint via the council that cited a layby full of fast food wrappers, 20 miles from the nearest outlet. They had to argue quite vehemently that no rider was going to divert 20 miles off course, pick up happy meal, carry it 20 miles back to the course and sit up in a layby, not far from an aid station, and eat before littering and continuing with their ride. Apparently the complainant didn't think anyone with a car, and thus the means to carry their litter away, would never drop it at the roadside.

[Bearbonesnorm]

I miss all the good stuff! Any highlights?!

Not very exciting but it went thus;

Bloke posts pics of a night inside what is quite obviously a hide.

Another bloke asks for details, thinking it was a bothy.

Third bloke, says "go and find it yourself because that's part of the fun"

Some blokes take offence at this and say it shouldn't have been posted if he wasn't willing to share - remember, never show these blokes a pic of your girl / boy friend.

I say, "leave him alone, he went out and kindly shared his pics, you don't now own him and yeah, go and find it yourself"

Some blokes are now dischuffed and decide to search the internet and post up details to where they think said hide is - I assume in an effort to prove how good they are with Google.

I congratulate them on f**king things up in a matter of minutes.

Doesn't go down well ...

One bloke leaves some blokes and says that you shouldn't be stopping in hides anyway as it's naughty and someone might find you and tell your dad.

Before I can type FFS, post gets pulled and all blokes, wonder off to moan about something else.

[atk]

Blokes in ruining-everything shocker...

[voodoo_simon]

Ahh, thats what you typed! Thread got pulled before I could see your comment (and yes, google was sub standard for finding it!) and you're right, I did go off muttering (did make me help out with the painting though)

I still can't see what the fuss is about sharing locations of bivi/bothy spots etc and I can't see the difference between sharing a location on the 'net (I've found loads through this website) and taking someone there, chatting to them on the pub. Saying that, I was thinking earlier in the week about this thread. It's starting to make me think differently about sharing places with some many 'horror' stories

[voodoo_simon]

Blokes in ruining-everything shocker...

[ScotRoutes]

Not very exciting but it went thus;
.........

Before I can type FFS, post gets pulled and all blokes, wonder off to moan about something else.

Ah - I missed all that shenanigans

[Yorlin]

Ah seems about normal for this sort of thing!

Bird hide in question is this btw http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/5168630 It's visited a *lot* by birdwatchers though and is about 2 mins down a path from a tarmac'd farm access road which is also one of the busiest routes into the Pentlands. Well done him on getting a full nights kip! Oh and it really was opened by David Bellamy you know!

The actual Pentlands bothy is a fair bit south and west and not really directly accessable from that bit.

[Bearbonesnorm]

I still can't see what the fuss is about sharing locations of bivi/bothy spots etc and I can't see the difference between sharing a location on the 'net (I've found loads through this website) and taking someone there, chatting to them on the pub. Saying that, I was thinking earlier in the week about this thread.

Sharing spots with people you trust is one thing. Posting them on the web for millions to see, some of whom will likely be cockwombles is very different. You can't do that and then wonder why littering, vandalism, confrontation and general over use becomes a problem.

It's starting to make me think differently about sharing places with some many 'horror' stories

Well, at least some goods come from it then.

[Trigs]

I try to leave wherever i camp tidier than when i arrived. I admittably sometimes dont carry the rubbish out,as i dont have the space for it. (I know, excuses !)
But i do try to gather the rubbish up and either burn it if its suitable, or else bag it and leave it somewhere not completely out of sight. I figure at least its not scattered about and making an eyesore, and someone else may have more room to carry it out.
I have seen posts elsewhere complaining about people leaving bags of rubbish as if the bin man is gonna come and collect it, so perhaps im as well just leaving it scattered about.

I also tidy up firepits. I dont have a problem with fires . But theres some bits you get to and theres a rake of different firepits all within feet of each other. I usually leave one pit, and get rid of the rest of the boulders and try and tidy up the fire scars. Cant see why people insist on making their own fire ring when they are surrounded by them.


I quite often go down to galloway forest, and its the worst area ive seen. Its too handy with access for cars through large parts of it. You can walk away up fire breaks thinking you'll be the first to go there, and then you come across a clearing where they've held a secret T in Park. Or not so secret if you had the misfortune to be camping within the park at the same time

[ianfitz]

I miss all the good stuff! Any highlights?!

Not very exciting but it went thus;

Bloke posts pics of a night inside what is quite obviously a hide.

Another bloke asks for details, thinking it was a bothy.

Third bloke, says "go and find it yourself because that's part of the fun"

Some blokes take offence at this and say it shouldn't have been posted if he wasn't willing to share - remember, never show these blokes a pic of your girl / boy friend.

I say, "leave him alone, he went out and kindly shared his pics, you don't now own him and yeah, go and find it yourself"

Some blokes are now dischuffed and decide to search the internet and post up details to where they think said hide is - I assume in an effort to prove how good they are with Google.

I congratulate them on f**king things up in a matter of minutes.

Doesn't go down well ...

One bloke leaves some blokes and says that you shouldn't be stopping in hides anyway as it's naughty and someone might find you and tell your dad.

Before I can type FFS, post gets pulled and all blokes, wonder off to moan about something else.

I spotted that discussion and chuckled because the the bloke who posted the picture also went on that trip with a Chap who is well know in ultra distance circles. The chap tweeted similar pictures of thir trip. And, when someone asked, also the name of the nature park the bird hide is in. The strava gpx of the ride was also available

So the info is usually out there...

[ScotRoutes]

I try to leave wherever i camp tidier than when i arrived. I admittably sometimes dont carry the rubbish out,as i dont have the space for it. (I know, excuses !)

How can you not have the room for it if you carried it in?

[Trigs]

Other peoples rubbish, not mine.
I changed the first sentence of that post after writing it, but i see now that i didnt really mention that by leaving somewhere tidier than when i arrived, i meant i tidy up other peoples rubbish that was already there.

[voodoo_simon]

I try to leave wherever i camp tidier than when i arrived. I admittably sometimes dont carry the rubbish out,as i dont have the space for it. (I know, excuses !)

How can you not have the room for it if you carried it in?

I think Trugs is referring to other people's rubbish, not his

[ScotRoutes]

Other peoples rubbish, not mine.
I changed the first sentence of that post after writing it, but i see now that i didnt really mention that by leaving somewhere tidier than when i arrived, i meant i tidy up other peoples rubbish that was already there.

LOL- now it makes sense

[Trigs]

Glad of that. Was making for the exit there.