Clips or flats?

[Pickers]

Now then, I've ridden clipless pedals for 20 odd years for road and offroad. Never really been interested in trying flats, but I'm having a bit of a rethink.
On the WRT I was the only one of our little group (Chew's LHC B Team reserves) using clipless. Certainly not an issue in itself, but I did get to wonder a little about what the preferences are on here. I was struggling a bit with clogged up cleats near the end, obviously this wouldn't have happened with flat pedals. Might give them a go - I see that Saint pedals are a bit over £30 or so, might give them a punt and see how I get on.

[Richard G]

Clips for about 5 years. Flats for the last 3 years.

Would need a very good reason to go back... and I just can't see it happening. Certainly wouldn't be for the mystical added efficiency that clipless offers.

I do miss being able to get decent winter cycling boots though. There's an amazing selection available for SPD.

[whitestone]

I swap between clipless and flats. I've a pair of Specialized Bushtoasters which are great as a winter boot but they are SPD - as Richard says, decent winter cycling boots for flats are hard to come by.

[Bearbonesnorm]

I've always ridden with flat pedals ....... but now they're becoming much more popular, I might switch to clipless

[Pickers]

I've always ridden with flat pedals ....... but now they're becoming much more popular, I might switch to clipless

That's not much help frankly

[Lawmanmx]

flats for Fun! .... and speed, but mostly fun, and that's what riding is all about really innit?

[Yorlin]

Clipless on my road, and flats on my mtb. As I'm not that great at the technical stuff! Superstar always seem to have deals on, and properly hideous colours.
http://www.superstarcomponents.com/en/s ... in-pedals/ I see they have magnesium pedals now, a new one on me!

On my cx/tourer I've got the clipless one side/flat the other pedals but I may just go for proper spd ones.

[benp1]

Flats for MTB, pottering around, errands and local cycling

[HaYWiRe]

Clipless now, used to ride flats but can't see myself going back.

Added efficiency and pedalling circles is all just sales talk to me, I just feel safer clipped in.

I found that over rough stuff I really had a hard time keeping my feet on the pedals and kept bouncing off no matter my technique, going clipped solved this and has given me far more confidence and ability when the going gets rough.

Also I'm a bit OCD with my foot placement on the pedal and found myself readjusting all the time until it felt right, with clips I'm in the same place every time and the consistency is nice.

Yes there's a learning curve but clearly you wont have to worry about that. Hike a bike can be a bit more difficult but ill be honest and try and avoid too much walking. Not terrible though and I just find its worth it for the upsides.

[Pirahna]

Anybody using Power Grips?

http://www.powergrips.com/

[GregMay]

James used them on the HTR in 2013 - with a pair of Inov-8 Mudclaws - SS on a rigid Gryphon. He did fine until his wheel exploded outside Strathcarron.

[Chew]

I've always ridden with flat pedals ....... but now they're becoming much more popular, I might switch to clipless

I thought it was only us two that were niche mongers

The advantages for me are its easier for when you have to push or walk about off the bike and on long rides you can alter your foot position around so you can use different muscles and release aches.

Just buy some cheapo panels and give it a go with some trainers. What's there to lose?

[Alpinum]

Flats for all things downhill oriented - basically up a steep hill only to have fun going down again.
Having gotten rid of a 160 mm bike and soon of the DH horse-drawn sledge I use a 120/110 mm bike for most duties and swap pedals depending on what I'll focus on.
But mostly it's SPDs (XTR Trail) on my BMC Fourstroke and always SPDs (XT Trail) on my rigid single speeder.

I can't imagine single speeding where I live without clips.

James used them on the HTR in 2013 - with a pair of Inov-8 Mudclaws - SS on a rigid Gryphon. He did fine until his wheel exploded outside Strathcarron.

Did he ever crank at 30-40 rpm?

Rode 17 years on flats only, but the last three have seen me clipped in every now and then.
Must say, my riding gets much more skittish on flats and I feel it's easier to make use of my riding skills, but for long distances I prefer the laziness of being attached.

[cyclingtiger]

I've got clips on the tourer, the road bike, the recumbent, the polo bike and the fixed wheel/cx bike so I'm pretty much habituated to them. I've used them for about 15 years.

When I picked up the 29er it had flats as standard so I used them to ride home. Kind of OK on the flat sections but as soon as I started going up hill the foot on the upstroke kept popping off and I bashed my shin a bunch of times. With all my cycling shoes set to SPDs and using them so ingrained in my cycling habits, I can't see the point in not using them. Learning to use flats now seems like a waste of time.

As for the efficiency? 30%? Maybe if you're a pro and your pedalling technque has been endlessly refined. But for us mere mortals, there's still some obvious benefit. Not squishing a sole with every stroke. Consistent good foot position. A bit of pull on the upstroke. Perhaps a bit better handling on tricky terrain. The question is, are these things more important than the benefits of flats? To me they are but they won't be for everyone.

[RIP]

Ey up Rich! Well I only had flats in our lovely LHCB group cos I thought everybody else would have 'em and I didn't want to be the one labelled as the STW nerd in our group for having clipless :)

"Reg"

[RIP]

For some reason that it's probably best not to pry too deeply into, I've got one spare clipless pedal in my shed. How about I post it to you then you could have one pedal clipless and one flat. Then have a couple of rides and whichever foot feels best is the one you go with. I spose the problem there is if you ended up preferring clipless you'd either have to find someone else with half a pair (a different half presumably) or you'd have to buy some and end up with one spare one yourself - which you could then public-spiritedly give to someone else with the same dilemma as you. Erm. Clearly (cleatly?) I haven't thought this through properly, but hey I'm just the blue-skies helicopter-view man, someone else can work out the implementation details.

"Reg"

[Richard G]

To be honest I wouldn't recommend sh*t pedals and average trainers to people trying flats. I'd argue that pedal weighting (on jumps and bumpy stuff especially) and pedalling technique is even more difficult to get right using flats, and having trainers with unsuitable soles interfacing with slippy plastic pedals isn't going to help people.

I think if anything, SPDs allow you to get away with a much more sloppy technique because it really doesn't matter if you're properly unweighting / spinning circles vs stomping up and down. At the end of the day, you're connected... your feet aren't going to slip / shift, and you'll still get most of your power into the pedals. Plus there's the good old pull up bunny hop available to you.

Edit - Oh and those Saint Pedals are properly grippy. You could do far worse.

[Alpinum]

To be honest I wouldn't recommend sh*t pedals and average trainers to people trying flats. I'd argue that pedal weighting (on jumps and bumpy stuff especially) and pedalling technique is even more difficult to get right using flats, and having trainers with unsuitable soles interfacing with slippy plastic pedals isn't going to help people.

I think if anything, SPDs allow you to get away with a much more sloppy technique because it really doesn't matter if you're properly unweighting / spinning circles vs stomping up and down. At the end of the day, you're connected... your feet aren't going to slip / shift, and you'll still get most of your power into the pedals. Plus there's the good old pull up bunny hop available to you.

Edit - Oh and those Saint Pedals are properly grippy. You could do far worse.

Wise words.
The lazy way of bunny hops clipped in is called piggy hop - when both wheel leave the ground simultaneously
Oh and 5.10 shoes and stealth rubber. Noticeable difference even to bike specific vibram soles.

[jameso]

Last time we did a trip in the Alps we all swore to use flats next time. Good for anything with a lot of HAB and tech, better footwear options too. 2 of us ended up with completely trashed spd shoes after the GR5. For most stuff I'd ride though it makes little odds, whatever you prefer.

Now I think about trying to wrestle a loaded bike through tight local singletrack with my foot out quite often .. and how much fun my old Chameleoon was on flats .. maybe there's a case for flats on any bike that's not being raced. 'Flats for fun'. Got a set of DXs that's going on the Jones for my next overnighter.

[Pickers]

The advantages for me are its easier for when you have to push or walk about off the bike and on long rides you can alter your foot position around so you can use different muscles and release aches.

Chew - the first bit of this is what I'm interested in, not only when it's muddy and things are getting clogged but also rocky surfaces - steel cleats and wet rocks are not happy together at all. On the second comment, did you use flats for your Audax rides? I'd not even considered them for that type of ride.

I found that over rough stuff I really had a hard time keeping my feet on the pedals

This is what concerns me a little. I guess you develop your technique to overcome this, but is this a new trick for an old dog?

the STW nerd in our group for having clipless :)

Yeah...... Thanks mate ☺

Plus there's the good old pull up bunny hop available to you.

Sorry. That's as good as it gets at the moment.....

Oh and those Saint Pedals are properly grippy. You could do far worse.

Gonna have a punt on these I think. In true STW style..... what shoes?

[Bearbonesnorm]

This is what concerns me a little. I guess you develop your technique to overcome this, but is this a new trick for an old dog?

Really, it's just a matter of placing your foot a little further forward than you would clipped in. Your ankle will be much more stable (which prevents your foot coming off the back of the pedal) if the ball of your foot is slightly forward of the axle rather than above it.

Gonna have a punt on these I think. In true STW style..... what shoes?

I've used 5:10 shoes for years but they're not cheap and I go through them at quite a rate. At the moment, I'm using some Sombrio boots bought cheaply from Chain Reaction. They're a bit in your face but so far I'm pretty impressed. If you have small feet, they still have some in stock: http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/shoe ... 4294952762

[Dan_K]

I started off on spds for mountain biking as that's what my father in law had. He got be into mountain biking so I assumed that's what everyone used. I got into road biking pretty heavily so continued to use clipless pedals.

Last year I got a decent full suspension bike and made the switch to flats. I now have them on my hardtail too. I feel that I've lost a bit of pedal fluidity but feel much more confident on the bike. Knowing that I can easily put a foot down if things go wrong has helped my confidence no end.
I don't think I'll ever go back to spds for general riding unless I was doing a tour that involved a lot of roads.

I use Superstar El Plastique pedals with 5:10 shoes. The pedals were bought because they were cheap really but I'm happy with them. Will upgrade to something nicer when the bearings go.

[Dr Nick]

Interesting question and responses. I used spds on and off road for about 15 years, but I'm a slow and steady rider as The LHC team B will testify. Big air is not in my repertoire!

I went back to flats about 5 years ago due to knackered ligaments in my R ankle. The clipping in and out was not good at all.

As mentioned above, being able to reposition my foot on longer riders, even if only slightly, is an unexpected benefit.

I use cheapish mks flats on my Roadified 80's mtb, dahon folding flats on my commuting bike, and saints on my off road bike.

I'm amazed at the grippiness of the saints either with giro non spd shoes or my trail running shoes, both of which are so much nicer for hab.

I also like the fact that I can sneak a quick dab in if necessary without having to think about unclipping - no matter how habitual the unclopping action is...

I reckon the saints are definitely worth a punt and they'd sell easily, I think, if you don't get on with them

[whitestone]

Re: keeping your feet on the pedals

Beyond having your feet further forward than you would with SPDs, etc, the "trick" is to drop your heels so that your weight is pushing forward on the pedals as well as down. This is more for descents or coasting over technical sections than for pedalling on the flat or uphill.

Clattered my shins and calves a few times when I started on flats but soon got used to them. Currently I'm using FiveTen shoes (don't know the model off-hand) but they don't feel as secure as the old Merrill walking shoes I used when I made the switch, which is rather odd as the Merrill's are lethal as walking shoes , the sole just isn't suited to anything damp - a wet pavement is like a skating rink. Since I wasn't sure I'd get on with flats I used a cheap(ish) pair of pedals and the above mentioned Merrills before taking the plunge with a good pair of pedals and shoes.

The comment about steel cleats and rocks definitely rings true nervous memories of carrying a bike across several sets of stepping stones in Dartmoor rivers. I find that the soles wear down so that the cleat is eventually at the same level as the rubber grip part of the sole and you have to be ever more careful in placing your feet when HaB.

[Bearbonesnorm]

Beyond having your feet further forward than you would with SPDs, etc, the "trick" is to drop your heels so that your weight is pushing forward on the pedals as well as down. This is more for descents or coasting over technical sections than for pedalling on the flat or uphill.

I don't really want to get involved in a full blown discussion about this here but ...

Dropping your heels is used to reposition your body to counteract braking forces. If you ride with your heels dropped when not braking, you have nothing to counteract braking forces with except a big, slow, exaggerated body movement - not good.

Dropping your heels, shifts your weight from pressing down on the BB (the bikes natural CoG) and moves your weight rearward which upsets the balance of the bike, puts more stress on your arms / hands and reduces grip on the front tyre.

Oddly, one place where dropping your heels will be of benefit is when riding loose, technical climbs - the kind where you're stood up

EDIT: Something I forgot. Heel dropping also makes it more likely that you'll ride with your rear crank below horizontal - again, not good for the bikes balance as your weight is no longer centred side to side.