New bikepacking bike

[Blackhound]

So after losing 2 of my bikes last week I will be looking to replace them, probably with one. I will probably buy a complete bike as I do not have many bits available to build one up from a frame.

Budget will be ~£2,000 assuming insurance pays out ok for both bikes - a lot more than I usually spend.

I tend to keep bikes for a while so want it to be reasonably future proof and I don't follow the techy bit of the market to much.

I am trying to decide between steel and carbon although I have been happy with my aluminium Voodoo and Niner. Steel would probably be a Solaris but someone did tell me they may not be comfy over long periods in the saddle. Getting one built would be £1,000 (In 725 with steel fork at Mercian) and probably be a bit expensive for me - and a bit of a wait for it to be built. (I do have some wheels and Reba's lying around)

Looking at carbon there is Scott and Merida for instance. Does not seem to be any 2013 Scott's available cheap and I have seen 2013 reduced and 2014 Merida's for about ~£2,000+ with slightly different specs and these could be an option. (Tredz has both at the moment).

I rode a BMC briefly in Colorado and really liked it. It was top of the range but Evans have one on offer at £2,400 in my size as well which is also tempting but probably a bit above budget.

Looking at the Boardman range carbon looks to only be on 650b with 29er being aluminium only, an interesting decision.

There is a ex-demo Niner SIR9 available for £1,600 at the moment as well with a nice spec.

So what do people think of:

a) carbon frames for bikepacking?
b) 650b - is it the future and parts likely to be widely available? (in truth probably just wheels and forks)
c)Sram for shifting and current Avid / Magura brakes ok?
d) 2x10 or 3x9 or 10? Are we moving to double chainrings?



I have just found Shimano more reliable for gear duties and brakes in my limited experience. But are these false prejudices. I also want to stick rigid forks in when required.

Bit of a rambling post but a lot for me to consider. First two decisions are wheel size and material and go from there. (Mrs B would rather me discuss with you lot than bore her to tears;-))

[jameso]

after losing 2 of my bikes last week

: ( sorry to hear that..

Carbon for bikepacking - great if you're sponsored, not so great if you do high miles with bags on and travel a fair bit - wear and tear would be my concern? Perhaps a concern more than a reality but rear stays and sides of frame tubes are often more easily damaged beyond use than a steel / Al bike (generalisation disclaimer etc).
And 650B - can't think of any reason to choose a 650B for general BP use. I like them for some things, but bigger is better for BP imo. Just my opinion tho.
Gearing - spares for either for a few years yet, makes little odds I think. I'm on 9spd still.

If I was buying a new rigid BP bike and Jones frames were off the list based on £, I'd want to try out a Gryphon. Nice geo for loop or drop bars, looks comfy.

[Bearbonesnorm]

The below is my own opinion and may differ from others

Steel frame if it were going to be my only bike for the reasons James states.

Shimano for gearing / brakes ... just don't get on with SRAM.

2 rings up front but I'm torn between 22/34 and something like 28/40 - depends how much value you place on your low gears I suppose.

29" wheels. I rode a 650b a couple of weeks ago and hand on heart couldn't tell it apart from 26" :?

[Zippy]

So what do people think of:

a) carbon frames for bikepacking?
b) 650b - is it the future and parts likely to be widely available? (in truth probably just wheels and forks)
c)Sram for shifting and current Avid / Magura brakes ok?
d) 2x10 or 3x9 or 10? Are we moving to double chainrings?

a.) Deffo recommend NO. I know I'm riding a carbon bike for the BB200, but it's carbon-ness has been nothing but hassle. In a nut-shell carbon is not very abrasion resistant and it really has been a hard bike to look after (one frame rebuild/patch as the major issue I had). For a sunday best bike, yeah sure, but not for a all the time MTB duties (you could be excused one for short XC raciing ). Also carbon is good at making creaking noises even if it's all ok.

b.) Can't pass comment, I only know 26ers

c.) I'm a massive fan of shimano brakes (tried most different versions on a long term basis). Avid I'd not recommend (bad experiences on elixrR's and juicy's on a long term basis), magura are alrite I think but not has personal experience on that one. SRAM shifting I can't actually fault...but I run shimano on everything for compatibility-ness, and I did find it a PITA changing the cables on my X9 shifters...

d.) I'm gonna start going the double chainring route (when going full on gears) as it's less fiddly. 10 speed seems to be a fairly established standard now, so that would be ok, but I personally am 9 speed on ALL my bikes for a few reasons: inter bike spare parts compatability, 9 speed chain is wider so the chain I expect to last a bit longer (for less money), and 9 speed stuff seems a tiny bit cheaper atm...but not a lot in it really.

[johnnystorm]

KISS! Keep it simple! Love my Fargo for it's lack of bell's and Whistles. If I had £2k to spend I'd have a look at that new Surly ECR. :)

[composite]

a.) Deffo recommend NO. I know I'm riding a carbon bike for the BB200, but it's carbon-ness has been nothing but hassle. In a nut-shell carbon is not very abrasion resistant and it really has been a hard bike to look after (one frame rebuild/patch as the major issue I had). For a sunday best bike, yeah sure, but not for a all the time MTB duties (you could be excused one for short XC raciing ). Also carbon is good at making creaking noises even if it's all ok.

Is this just a cosmetic thing?
I have gone with a carbon frame for my "race bike" (lurcher). In these terms racing is 12/24 solos as well as unsupported/bike packing type racing. Slightly concerned I have gone with the wrong thing now. I was aiming on taping up the frame where straps would rub etc.

[FLV]

I used a carbon frame for a while, it was my first 29er and was a scott scale. It was a really really nice bike to ride. But. Fragile. I crashed it in the ice whilst loaded with bikepacking gear, it went down on the mech and splintered the carbon part of the frame which holds the replaceable mech. Its now a loft ornament.
As I say, was ace to ride. My mate still uses a scott scale for bikepacking and loves it. But for durability, I like metal best.

650b is almost certainly here to stay, the industry has invested enough cash in it now that its going to be around for the foreseeable future I would think. Personally I think 29ers are better distance covering bikes and are a little more versatile than 650b for part transfer for me. Such things as the ability to use the wheels in cross bikes like the straggler etc that come with 135mm dropouts. Or indeed cross tyres can be used on the MTB for touring etc.
I’ve never had a major issue with SRAM for shifting, I like shimano better and find it better value but SRAM certainly works. I find sram cranks annoying as they need a massive allen key to secure them, this means a large extra tool for big trips that I just don’t want to carry. As for spares, I fine shimano chainrings and BB’s easier and cheaper to source with more choice. I used a mix for many years, no problems.
For brakes, I find shimano to leaps ahead. They seem to just work with little maintenance and have been updated a little more recently than avids I think (could be wrong).
2x10 is fine, but so is 3x10. Both are readily available as far as know. Also there seems to be no push to remove the 3x10 from the market from shimano, as much as we can tell… 9 speed? Its still out there but I know from experience that some local shops don’t really stock it anymore. If you bent something and wanted a replacement it would, in my opinion be easier to walk into a shop replace a 10speed item than 9 speed in this country now.

As for bikes. How much future proofing do you want? My list when I tried to look at this included sliding / replaceable dropouts, 44mm or taper head tube for taper forks (which are everywhere now) and so on.
If I were buying right now, I’d consider something like a 2014 El Mariachi frame which for 399 on a certain site seem cracking value for money. Stick on a pair of hope / Stans wheels for about £375, add an XT groupset £499 including brakes, or perhaps an SLX for £350!, a few nice parts to finish and you’re in well under budget?

[composite]

So as an actual contribution to the thread instead of just asking questions....

Always used Shimano myself, normally a mixture of XT and SLX. Always really liked HT2 BB, they have lasted ages for me. I really think the XT shifters feel loads better than the SLX, other than that I wouldn't bother going XT unless I got some deals... which I did on my new build.

Also there seems to be no push to remove the 3x10 from the market from shimano, as much as we can tell… 9 speed? Its still out there but I know from experience that some local shops don’t really stock it anymore. If you bent something and wanted a replacement it would, in my opinion be easier to walk into a shop replace a 10speed item than 9 speed in this country now.

As little as a year ago I found the exact opposite. I had never broken a rear mech then broke 2 in 2 weeks. The second time I was desperate for a replacement as planning a trip and so was trying to source one from a shop rather than online. I was willing to take a deore/SLX/XT 10 speed and after calling 5 shops in Birmingham and 2 in leamington spa I still couldn't get one. They all had 9 speed in stock... probably just unlucky but it seemed like a related story to tell. :D

In terms of brakes I have been a Hope X2 fan boy for ages but this time round on the build for my 29er I thought I would give Deore a go as they are so much cheaper. Not finished the build yet so not a lot to say really.

[Cheeky Monkey]

I don't need a new bike but am thinking of a Swift on pre-offer @ £400 to try the fabled-ness. I certainly like the Gryphon and have found 29 on a regular frame (On One Scandal) a pleasant change. As there's a Alfine8 29r wheel in my "spares" bin I'm most of the way there for bits and fancy a rigid justs for a change / slight weight and maintenance saving. Secondhand Swift's seem a bit silly expensive so hope it'll hold any value if I choose to get rid.

I like steel and for reasons other's mention (not substantiated by experience as don't own a carbon frame) I wouldn't get a carbon if it was going to do lots of BP.

I like Shimano for most drive train stuff and run Hope on all my bikes (mostly because I have access to it cheap) and it's easier to run one brand of brakes on several bikes. I've managed to change most things in a Hope brake (not that there are many) so like the fact that even a monkey with a spanner can probably sort them.

I'd like to try soem 2*10 or probably 1*10 as I am less inclined to faff with gears, mechs, cleaning etc. That's lazyness though.

[Blackhound]

Thanks all for your contributions.

Maybe I will skip carbon and 650b and stick with the 29er. I do have some wheels and sus forks I could use which would save on a build from scratch.

I am happy enough with 9 speed and not bothered about the extra cog but it seems to be the way things are going and did not want to risk buying a drive-train that I might not be able to replace cheaply in the future. Sounds as though that is not a real issue.

I had seen the Pegasus deal as well but of course that steel is not particularly light. The fork weighs more than a lot of carbon frames! Not ruled it out though. And I may look at some of the nicer aluminium frames.

Insurance company rang me today, think they want to replace the Epic rather than give me the cash, not what I really want but may not have a choice.

[Chew]

I'd be tempted to go down the steel framed route. A good steel frame isnt going to weigh that much more than a carbon one, especially after you add any luggage to the frame. Also the beauty of steel is it can be bodged/fixed if you're somewhere exotic (Iran?).

Same with wheel size. Outside of the US/Western Europe you'd struggle to find 650b rims/tyres if anything did happen. The bigger the better so i'd be going down the 29er route

It always seems to be easier/cheaper to get Shimano stuff. Avids have never let me down but they more slow me down than stop me so i'd look at Shimano brakes.

3/10, 2/10 dont think it matters. Depends on how much range you want?

[composite]

Insurance company rang me today, think they want to replace the Epic rather than give me the cash, not what I really want but may not have a choice.

I'm sure I remember reading somewhere that you will always have the choice, it's not up to them. Basically keep demanding money rather than replacement bike and they have to let you have it.

[ianfitz]

If I was looking to get a steel frame then I'd talk to Matt Bowns at 18 bikes. His work is fantastic.

[jameso]

You can get a cheque for the value from most if not all companies - used to quote for bike replacements when I worked in a shop.

2014 El Mariachi frame which for 399 on a certain site seem cracking value for money.

Really?! Stunning VFM. I'd buy that while they were available. 2013 or 2014 spec, both really nice frames.

[jameso]

Also there seems to be no push to remove the 3x10 from the market from shimano

.. just wait till next year.. usual sh1t applies >: )

[Blackhound]

Just seen the El Mariachi, £100 less than at Sideways as well. Food for thought. Looking at jameso' last post may need to be careful with kit choice. Was thinking that if I saved money on a steel frame I may be able to spend it somewhere else to save money, probably light wheels. Anyway, will see what I end up with from insurance. Maybe easier for them to write one cheque for both. Thanks all, I do feel further forward. 29er and Shimano and not carbon.

[ianfitz]

Oh, and Id like a dynamo hub and front light. No batteries and charge your GPS as you ride.

Agree about shimano brakes. I was a total hope fanboy until the latest shimano brakes. They are stunningly powerful. Genuinely 1 finger levers.

[Yorlin]

http://www.genesisbikes.co.uk/bikes/adv ... de-fer-931

And you'll have 1p change!

[ScotRoutes]

I wouldn't have any concerns about Carbon as long as it's taped up to avoid scuffing. Builders and designers have learnt a lot over the last few years and they are no longer being built for minimum weight over strength and more advanced layup techniques mean less compromise. I'm currently looking at buying one of those cheap Chinese carbon 29er frames and taking everything off the El Mariachi to build it up.

650B? If you are tall enough to ride a 29er comfortably then I don't see the point. For those who are a bit shorter the space betwixt saddle and tyre can be an issue for fitting luggage. I'd likely have a 29+ if it wasn't for that issue.

Brakes? Always Shimano. One thing working in a bike shop told me was that the reason we didn't stock spares for Shimano brakes is that there was never any call for them. Avid, Hope, Hayes etc? We had loads of spare for those

Gearing - ultimately, you'll struggle to get the full range of a 3x10 system with a 2x10. If your riding involves steep, laden climbs and fast fire-road (or tarmac) descents then you might miss something at one end or the other.

[jameso]

Looking at jameso' last post may need to be careful with kit choice.

Only if you're at XTR level, filter-down as always. Deore's 10spd now (2014) so it does seem that 9spd may only have a 2-3yrs left. I'm sticking with 9 anyway.

[composite]

I'm currently looking at buying one of those cheap Chinese carbon 29er frames and taking everything off the El Mariachi to build it up.

I was looking at one of these for a good while and was almost about to take the the plunge when On One had their crazy Lurcher sale so I went for one of those instead.

Few things to remember are that you will need to pay for shipping which bumps the price up and there is a good chance you might get stung for customs tax. Not huge sums but clearly it adds to the true cost.

The other thing I noticed about many of those frames is that the top tubes seem really short. I wanted a frame that was similar to my other bikes in terms of effective top tube length but a steeper head angle. I found that in my size the top tubes were short. I could have put a longer stem on but as it was a steep angle already I didn't want to be riding the front wheel like a uni cycle. I spent along time finding one with the geometry I was after.

[Blackhound]

That CdF looks interesting but think I want a flat barred bike and also something I can fit sus forks to. Currently I have no squidgy bikes and want one for some rides I do.

Will probably make the move to 10 speed to save doing it expensively in a few years time though I suspect 9 speed will be available for some time.

Seen a few negative comments regarding press fit bb's but I have no knowledge of them. Inclined to avoid but is this a few vociferous people who installed them with rocks? Any views? ( I would still happily use square taper)

[jameso]

Press-fit bbs - they can be ok but I don't see what advantage they have. I see BSA threaded bbs as a spec highlight these days.

[Blackhound]

Thanks jameso. Installed on some complete bikes should I go down that road. I was also considering PF bb's a minus point.

[ianfitz]

Pete has carbon frame fork and rims from flyxii.com they look good to me and their prices are keen to say the least. He'll be at the bb with it and I'm sure would be happy to talk about it.