Not sure how I got this far through life as an outdoors type without owning a fleece top.. but I got a Fohn fleece from the CRC sale on recommendation of the clothing designer at work who rates what they do, and it's brilliant. Probably no different to most similar fleeces but fits well, feels snug and is quite light, certainly warm for the weight, though a bit bulky when rolled up.

Is there was a go-to 1/4 zip type, no pockets, more compact fleece top for a bivi mid layer?

Perhaps no point as I'd be better off adding the equivalent weight to my down jacket (currently a Mtn Eq silly light thing, about 250g). The washable easy to deal with nature of a fleece top appeals though.

I bought a M and a L size, £13.50 each.. selling the L if anyone's interested - got 3x L Fohn tops to go in classifieds rather than risk returns now.
(mods! Not very Stealth ad!)

Also a huge fan of fleece. Wear one most days

Fleece doesn't pack down well. It's why it's such a good top, it retains its structure so keeps breathability etc

I use a polartec alpha top as my sleep layer (macpac nitro). It's lighter than most baselayers, can be used as midlayer, feels instantly warm, nice feeling against skin, can be used to ride in. I find it compresses more than normal fleece, but it's still not as compressible as a synthetic puffy or down top sandwiched between two layers.

You could try a 100wt fleece and see how you get on? It's the lightest weight of 'normal' fleece, or a very light gridded fleece (various brand names like polartec power dry). They're thinner so pack smaller, but still not easily compressible

I practically live in short-zip long-sleeved fleece tops. Comfy as! They squidge up a bit more bulky but how many would you be carrying?

Thanks Ben, will look up the Polartec fabric and the 100wt.

How many ... just one! : ) I'm not too worried about pack size as I generally have fairly small packed bags and can afford a bit more space, was interested to hear if there's a brand/material that does better than an average fleece on the warmth:bulk point. From the way the Fohn top fits I'm thinking getting a good slim/close fit is also important and helps reduce bulk when packed.

jameso wrote: ↑Thu Apr 04, 2024 9:00 am Thanks Ben, will look up the Polartec fabric and the 100wt.

How many ... just one! : ) I'm not too worried about pack size as I generally have fairly small packed bags and can afford a bit more space, was interested to hear if there's a brand/material that does better than an average fleece on the warmth:bulk point. From the way the Fohn top fits I'm thinking getting a good slim/close fit is also important and helps reduce bulk when packed.

You can get grid lined fleeces (montane and Patagonia definitely do one) that will pack down smaller than the average fleece but not by a huge amount.

I’ve gone back to fleece after years of poo pooing them and they’re absolutely brilliant, stay warm when wet too

i have a Alpkit hooded thing with the grid pattern. Griffon is the name.
nice and snug. with a hood that works ace under a helmet in cold weather.
and it packs down very small.

https://alpkit.com/products/griffon-hoo ... 8792495209

paid half this price tho in a sale.

I had a minor revelation last November when cycling in The Lakes: my techno-baselayer top became damp and clammy, so I removed it and spent the rest of the weekend wearing the fleece direct to skin and was warm & comfortable all weekend .

Back home (after a bit of rummaging in the cupboards) I found a snug-fitting generic fleece, then bought a Buffalo Windshirt and haven’t needed any other tops all winter .

Warm 'n' comfortable: it's underrated .

I've also recently turned to fleece a bit more for everyday, including a nice and cosy Fohn hoody/fleece from the sales, plus a couple of fleece based shirts. I've also got an Alpkit griffon as a mid-layer and it's really good. It's a gridded one that sheds heat and moisture well but is still quite warm, and can be worn on the bike when cold and in a sleeping bag. Slim fit, and comes in full and half zip, packs down reasonably for a fleece based top at least. Think they also do lightweight microfleece baselayers. I still stick to merino for base layers to reduce the fug though!

Lidl sometimes have lightweight half zip fleece tops. More mid-layer than outer / over layer. They're cheap and do the job.

I bought a Montane 'Protium' gridded fleece from Sport Pursuit recently, 230g in large with a hood. They do loads of versions (hood, no hood, full zip, quarter zip etc), SportsShoes usually have them going cheap as well if SP don't have your size left.

As you say, if you want anything much thicker then you have to (literally) weigh up the benefit IMO. I have a Patagonia R1 that is nice but weighs 350g - so about the same as a synthetic puffy jacket but doesn't pack down nearly as well.

Hah! I remember everyone extracting the Michael about my fleeces . Have worn 'em for pretty much all of my outings. Bamboo baselayer then one or two Berghaus fleeces (325g each) plus rain top. Nowt fancy. As said, warm enough when damp, easy to layer.

I got a Rab half-zip gridded fleece in a SP sale a few years ago now, light but a little bulky - I've taken it touring once instead of a down jacket when the forecast was for continuous rain and it did the job. If I was going to get a new one I'd get one with a hood though.

OMM Core stuff packs down really well and is functional as midlayer, not so much as outer layer like a more regular grid type, powerstretch fleece, Polartec Windpro etc.

My Core Hoodies are half the weight and volume of classic fleeces offering comparable warmth.

Tears easier than regular Polartec stuff though. Yet more sturdy then you'd think looking at/feeling it.

Alpinum wrote: ↑Thu Apr 04, 2024 10:38 am My Core Hoodies are half the weight and volume of classic fleeces offering comparable warmth.

Always interested in looking at lighter fleeces, so had a nosy.

https://www.facewest.co.uk/OMM-Core-Fle ... P6EALw_wcB

£100 (pushing it a bit for a fleece), 195g (not bad). But:

"We find that CORE products work best under a light waterproof in cold and wet conditions or just a light windproof in cold and dry conditions. CORE is an incredibly effective insulator but thanks to near-total air permeability, the lightest breeze can take away that heat".

So always need an outer layer or wind blows the heat away so I'm not quite sure of the point? Obv happy to hear of realworld experience .

RIP wrote: ↑Thu Apr 04, 2024 10:51 am I'm not quite sure of the point

Very obvious; modular insulation. You might have heard on the layering principle

The Core stuff in size L (tight fit for me) is more like 135 g. I've a tee made of Core+ stuff, weighs 90 g and is bloody amazing. Like putting on a thin puffy. Half the weight and as we tend to have wind or rain shells with us, it give you great options.

RIP wrote: ↑Thu Apr 04, 2024 10:51 am

Alpinum wrote: ↑Thu Apr 04, 2024 10:38 am My Core Hoodies are half the weight and volume of classic fleeces offering comparable warmth.

So always need an outer layer or wind blows the heat away so I'm not quite sure of the point? Obv happy to hear of realworld experience .

No real world experience, but this just sounds like a super-string vest, no?

If you always have to wear the shell to make sure you don't lose all the heat kept in by the mid layer, then that doesn't sound like a very flexible system. A layer should be removable if the conditions don't need it. My cheapo base and fleece(s) are warm and I add a U/L rain top if it rains or is very windy.

yeah maybe I'll get a Damart string vest .

I often wear a light cheapo thermal top as a second layer and that works fine too.

Think I've mentioned my beloved cannondale polartec 100 cycling tops before here when trying to find a replacement.

Despite being about 30 years old they are still my go to base layer, 1/4 zip, snug fit, back pockets, thin as #### now. Only wish they had a longer zip.

I wear it next to skin, a summer cycling tee or gilet is more often than not all I need on top for 2/3 of the year.

That alpkit top looks pretty good, but not as snug as my, did I say 'beloved' cannondale tops, and no back pockets

Another Griffon user here. Not ultra warm in the way that a lightweight down jacket is but fine nethertheless.

Fleece is somewhat resistant to being compressed just by the core material and how it's made. Most quality polyester fleece is made by just a couple of companies so you'll find that there's a lot of tops similar to the Griffon or whatever because that's what everyone is working with.

I've also a Mountain Equipment hooded fleece using, I think, Polartech 100. I've had it nearly thirty years and it gets a lot of use. One of the pocket zips came undone last year and my keys have worn a small hole in the other pocket but apart from that it really doesn't look its age, a bit of pilling around the cuffs and that's it. I was in an outdoor shop a couple of years ago and the shop assistant almost wistfully stated that "they don't make jackets to that quality any more", I'd probably bought the top before he was born

I really rate the Rab alpha fleece.

Very light and quite packable, super breathable and warm under a thin Montane windshell. Remove the windshell and you can dump heat instantly so very flexible used together.

RIP wrote: ↑Thu Apr 04, 2024 11:38 am If you always have to wear the shell to make sure you don't lose all the heat kept in by the mid layer, then that doesn't sound like a very flexible system. A layer should be removable if the conditions don't need it. My cheapo base and fleece(s) are warm and I add a U/L rain top if it rains or is very windy.

yeah maybe I'll get a Damart string vest .

I often wear a light cheapo thermal top as a second layer and that works fine too.

I guess the other way to look at it is it's insulating with a shell over it, much more than the shell alone, but you can cool down quickly by removing the shell or just venting a bit. But yeah, could end up being all or nothing and lacking a comfortable midpoint.

One of my most used pieces of outdoor clothing is probably a jumper I bought in Decathlon years ago for no reason really other than it was 3 quid and a nice burnt orange colour. It's not remotely technical, fully synthetic rather than my usual merino base layer preference, but it's surprisingly warm and packs down pretty small so it's a great extra layer to have. I've used it for non-active occasions as well because it's plain so doesn't look conspicuously outdoorsy. The only thing it's lacking is a zip for venting.

RIP wrote: ↑Thu Apr 04, 2024 11:38 am A layer should be removable if the conditions don't need it. My cheapo base and fleece(s) are warm and I add a U/L rain top if it rains or is very windy.

Just the way I use the Core stuff. Exactly the same way.
The Core stuff is just warmer for the weight and volume.

RIP wrote: ↑Thu Apr 04, 2024 11:38 amvery windy

In real world, how many kilometres or miles per hours would this be? Without this information I can't warrant a reliable answer for realworld experience

After (still am) using all sorts of fleeces for 1/4 of a decade of outdoor activities and a drawer with half a dozen of different fleece jumpers and hoodies it's indeed the Core stuff I pick the most. This probably describes the - for me - practical aspect of such fleece best.

thenorthwind wrote: ↑Thu Apr 04, 2024 8:58 pm[...]
I've used it for non-active occasions as well because it's plain so doesn't look conspicuously outdoorsy. [...]

The Core stuff (which comes from Primaloft) or Alpha Direct surely is different in this. Some find it good, others don't. What remains is that it's extremely functional.

Maybe I misread the product description in a review which said it had "zero" windproofness and all heat would be whipped away in a wind. 20mph on a bike is pretty windy. I'm just rebelling against something that doesn't sound perfect for £100 and needs a top layer (negating the weight saving) if I'm riding at more than 1mph .

Anyroad, I enjoyed reading about it thank you, learned something; and you're very happy with it, so all's good .

And what do I know anyway - I've regularly ridden in horrible conditions in sandals, washing up gloves and no shorts (*) so I'm no guide to super-technical gear .

Just about to go out for a walk in my cheapo fleece this morning .

Er, any conclusion after all that then James?

(*) my standard leg coverings are now pocketless bamboo baselayer, plus pocketless packable fleece (yes!) leggings if colder, plus Paclite trousers if it's raining.

Alpinum wrote: ↑Thu Apr 04, 2024 11:03 pm

RIP wrote: ↑Thu Apr 04, 2024 11:38 amvery windy

In real world, how many kilometres or miles per hours would this be? Without this information I can't warrant a reliable answer for realworld experience

I suspect Reg is already sewing anemometers onto his BB jersey, right next to the pandas .

Er, any conclusion after all that then James?

Yeah .. I bought something for under £15 to wear around the house/pub/etc which now has me looking at £70+ Alpha Direct fabric tops to wear while sleeping in fields

(a good read here, thanks all!)