New (carbon?) wheels

[Valerio]

I'm looking to upgrade my monstergravel bike and I'm looking at wheels first.

I'm a clumsy 90kg(14+stones) rider and use my bike on a bit of everything from tarmac to singletrack, including some gnarly Peak District trails.
Tyre widths I use go from 45mm to 2.3".

I have 2 cheap 29" alloy wheelsets, one with 25mm internal width and 2" tyres, one with 30mm internal width and 2.25" tyres.

I understand carbon wheels can save some weight, are stiffer and tend to stay truer (unless they fail catastrophically) compared to alloy.
I would be using the new wheelset on some off-road "ultra" race with a lot of climbing as well as some short and fast(er) event where 2" tyres will be plenty.

Having looked into some options I found:
- carbon wheels from Hunt and a few other companies. Little info on the hubs, rims are 30mm wide (internal) and have either 28 or 32 spokes (approx £800)
- specialist wheel builder (e.g. wheelsmith): plenty of choice on hubs and rim width. About 1000£ with hope hubs
- local bikeshop: bespoke wheels, choice of hubs and rim width. £1500 with hope hubs (cyclescheme available)

I'm relatively unexperienced and I'm looking for some advice on:
- Carbon vs alloy
- wheel features (hubs, rim widths, etc)
- where to buy

[redefined_cycles]

Hi Valerio. How on earth are you 90kg. From the vids you look like a racing whippet??

Anyway, if you're spending good money on wheels I'd defo go with some hubs that last. Hope and DT have stood the test of time. But, if you can afford and plan to take said wheels on the crazy Highland Trail 550 some day then why not invest in some Chris King hubs - they're for life and field serviceable. Ian Barrington of Wildcat serviced his hub from mud and gore during one of the HT550s and spoke highly of how easy they were with muck inside/to service etc.

Don't need to go for carbon to get good wheels that last the test of time. Kinlin are well priced, light (like, only 10% heavier than some lightweight but strong carbon rims) and reaaonably priced. Made in Taiwan (AFAIR) and I've always found them a pleasure to build with.

You're riht about carbon staying truer for linger but then equally if you got a shoddy wheel builder who didn't respect the lower torques then the spoke might just pull through one day. If it was me and money was good,I'd go buy an off the shelf set of Santa Cruz wheels. The warranty is fantasticand if you google their carbon rims you'll find Danny LotOfSkill trying to break em but failing. Had to remove the tyres inthe end and ride em down steps constantly.

Interesting to see what you finally decide on. If you share some more specs of what you needs (disc, obvs... width... weight... mtb or gravel, thiughI think you said that already) then am sure people will help with the window shopping process...

[redefined_cycles]

Oh... and don't try to fit a rim that'll not leave enough gap inside your frame/forks. Could be a but of and expensive/dangerous mistake when/if rocks or mud get lodged in that gap.

[Valerio]

Hi Valerio. How on earth are you 90kg. From the vids you look like a racing whippet??

Anyway, if you're spending good money on wheels I'd defo go with some hubs that last. Hope and DT have stood the test of time. But, if you can afford and plan to take said wheels on the crazy Highland Trail 550 some day then why not invest in some Chris King hubs - they're for life and field serviceable. Ian Barrington of Wildcat serviced his hub from mud and gore during one of the HT550s and spoke highly of how easy they were with muck inside/to service etc.

Don't need to go for carbon to get good wheels that last the test of time. Kinlin are well priced, light (like, only 10% heavier than some lightweight but strong carbon rims) and reaaonably priced. Made in Taiwan (AFAIR) and I've always found them a pleasure to build with.

You're riht about carbon staying truer for linger but then equally if you got a shoddy wheel builder who didn't respect the lower torques then the spoke might just pull through one day. If it was me and money was good,I'd go buy an off the shelf set of Santa Cruz wheels. The warranty is fantasticand if you google their carbon rims you'll find Danny LotOfSkill trying to break em but failing. Had to remove the tyres inthe end and ride em down steps constantly.

Interesting to see what you finally decide on. If you share some more specs of what you needs (disc, obvs... width... weight... mtb or gravel, thiughI think you said that already) then am sure people will help with the window shopping process...

Ahhaha racing whippet who??!!!!!
Nah I'm no race snake, but being 6'3" helps hiding the belly

Use of wheels would be for all terrain including mtb but majority would be gravel (e.g. from bb200 to Dirty Reiver).
My bike takes boos wheels so if going off the shelf then I'm pretty limited to mtb wheels.
Weight....as light as possible, some of the events I'm looking at have 1000+ km and 25m+/km.
Loaded bike can weigh up to 25kg
I'm using 160mm rotors but bike can take 180at the front.

My thinking is that 30mm wide rims might be a bit large for me. They look good with 2.25" tyres but smaller tyres might get too "round".

I think Chris King would be a stretch for my budget....tbh even spending £800 on wheels seems A LOT which is why I'm trying to understand if there's value vs a good alloy set

[redefined_cycles]

In that case, I'd wither go with an allow set (built to your specs.. cos a couple of Hopes would cost around £270... Kinlin rims around £100 for both and some Sapim aero spokes (they're very very strong but light).

I'd most probably want to have at least 28H but 32Hrims would add a bit of strength. Being alloy (and disks) means they'd lastan age. Another option is grabbing some HED rims. Wheel build costs (the person famous in Bristol is supposed to be really good and articulate) I'd guess are around £80 to £120 nowadays.

So all well within your budget. If you can stretch to DT Swiss ratchet type hubs, you'd also be doing yourself a favour in longer term servicing as they just come apart and easy to clean/relube(grease).

[redefined_cycles]

This seems a good deal and this chap has plenty exp of building good wheels and a rep to keep. I'd be finding out which hubs he's using though (cos I assume at this price they'll be cheap rubbish Bitex) and maybe uograde.


https://thecycleclinic.co.uk/collection ... conpatible

One thing you may not want to hear is that at £800... For decent rims you're just about gonna squeeze 2 x carbon rims and then the rest of the costs would be on top.

Difference in price between good alloy and decent carbon. Is about 8 times more (carbon would set you back that much more on avergae). Shirley will be along soon to clarify alot more stuff...

[Johnallan]

For my money (which it isn't) I'd buy a set of Hope Fortus, probably 23's, and just enjoy a simple, reliable wheelset and a few hundred quid spare to spend on beer/coffee/cake

[Mark E]

If you’re Peak based, I can recommend 18bikes in Hope as a wheel builder. I’ve had several sets built there- using dt 240 hubs and they have all been great. One set has done nearly all the bb200 events and 1 3/4 HT55Os and is still going strong.

[Hyppy]

A decent set of wheels needn't cost that much and as with all bike stuff there's diminishing returns on what you pay. Between my bikes I think I've perhaps a dozen sets of wheels at present, plus a couple of stray dynamo front-only, that are a mix of ones I've built myself, 'artisan' wheelbuilder-made, 'popular-brand' wheelbuilder-made, and generic factory-made. None are awful and equally none have offered any kind of revelatory experience regardless of how much I've spent although I've never gone proper high end, so could be missing out on a life-changing moment that spending a certain amount of cash gets you.

Given you're riding a set of appropriate-for-use wheels that are well-made, I genuinely don't think they have much affect on performance or enjoyment, and certainly don't at the level I ride at. ie, marginal gains mean diddly-squat to me. Tyre choice and tyre pressures have way more of an effect. Sure lighter is always nicer but usually some kind of compromise with durability/toughness, and there's value in serviceability, and availability of spares but I don't think you can go far wrong by just setting a budget and taking your pick.

This all said, it's nice having nice things. If you want to have something custom then I'd speak to a wheelbuilder and see what they recommend, although remembering that that'll really just be their opinions too.

[Evesie]

Not sure about the comment on BiTex hubs here:-

(cos I assume at this price they'll be cheap rubbish Bitex)

Always found them very good, seals keep the poo out, easy to service & amazing quick freehub pick-up + considerably cheaper than competitors.

[redefined_cycles]

Not sure about the comment on BiTex hubs here:-

(cos I assume at this price they'll be cheap rubbish Bitex)

Always found them very good, seals keep the poo out, easy to service & amazing quick freehub pick-up + considerably cheaper than competitors.

Fair enough. I'd been reading lots of mixed reviews or maybe my info is now out of date. They used to be quality hubs but some of the really cheap bearings. Thanks for that info Evesie

[Hyppy]

- specialist wheel builder (e.g. wheelsmith): plenty of choice on hubs and rim width. About 1000£ with hope hubs

Personally, I'd go with this option, Valerio. There's nowt really wrong with the others (although I've some really sloppily made Hunts) but you're likely to get a more personalised set up and have their specialist knowledge and experience to call on beyond what a more general LBS might offer, although many LBSs do have the skillz too and local is always good!

- where to buy

Just some suggestions but:
JRA have their fans.
RyanBuildsWheels too.
I've used Strada in the past.
And Arkane Wheelworks too.

I also did a wheel building course maybe 15 years back and while it's unlikely to work out much cheaper is a rewarding and useful thing to be able to do yourself, and have built perhaps 6 or 7 wheelsets since, including those I've used for ultra events like those you're mentioning.

[Lazarus]

My choice would be
DT Swiss hubs the ratchet is quieter( near silent) than the pawls.( not a hope but can be heard). I dont like the noisy freewheels /Hope types.

Alloy rims but i am 63 kg and dont break them. Carbon just seem more expensive for limited gain.

I build my own wheels so not loyal to anyone and doubt i would pay much for a name personally so whomever were the cheapest dornwhat i wanted.

YMMV

[Mart]

Also consider blue flow wheels (Nottingham based). They build with hope if that’s what you’re after.
I quite liked their warranty when I was looking. In the end I’ve gone to DT Swiss rims and hubs, built by the Keep pedalling.
They’ve done all my current wheels and have been most excellent

[Valerio]

Also consider blue flow wheels (Nottingham based). They build with hope if that’s what you’re after.
I quite liked their warranty when I was looking. In the end I’ve gone to DT Swiss rims and hubs, built by the Keep pedalling.
They’ve done all my current wheels and have been most excellent

That's good to hear Mart, as KeepPedalling is the local bike shop I spoke with.
I bpught my bike from them and I like the idea of supporting them and having someone local I can simply bring the wheels back to if there was any issue, unfortunately we're talking about an awful lot of money and saving a few 100s£ is a lot for me.

[Valerio]

Thanks all for the suggestions.

A doubt i have is if 25mm (internal width) rims would be more appropriate for the riding I do, or if I should just go with bombproof 30mm wheels (which would probably be too big for 45mm tyres).

Any heavy-handed person out there riding 25mm rims?
30mm seems to be the standard for mtb nowadays

[Lazarus]

Remember 10+ years ago we were all putting 2.3 tyres mtb tyres on 19 mm internal width rims perhaps even a 2.5. My SS still does with 26 ers

I ride 3 " tyres on 30 mm internal and a 38 mm on a 19 mm ( road) IMHO its just the current trend ( go wider) rather than it really matters

[Teaman]

Not sure about the comment on BiTex hubs here:-

(cos I assume at this price they'll be cheap rubbish Bitex)

Always found them very good, seals keep the poo out, easy to service & amazing quick freehub pick-up + considerably cheaper than competitors.

I did a reasonable amount of research last year prior to getting a new rear wheel build this year and also spoke to some good wheelbuilders and ended up going for a BX211R Boost Rear Hub 32H. It was highly recommended and haven't heard anything bad about them. Not cheap at £120 for the hub but I suppose it is compared to some competitors.

[Hyppy]

Thanks all for the suggestions.

A doubt i have is if 25mm (internal width) rims would be more appropriate for the riding I do, or if I should just go with bombproof 30mm wheels (which would probably be too big for 45mm tyres).

Any heavy-handed person out there riding 25mm rims?
30mm seems to be the standard for mtb nowadays

Sounds like you're stuck somewhere between GRVL and MTB in your riding, Valerio, which is kinda where I am and your Cutty and my Cascade would have us placed too. I'd base your choice on the tyres you wanna run rather than perceived bombproof-ness of any width. FWIW, I use 30mm rims for 2.3 and up tyres, and 24mm for 38mm up. As Lazarus alludes to, wider tyres on narrower rims can work just fine but in my experience wide rims and narrow(er) tyres can be more problematic.

[Valerio]

Remember 10+ years ago we were all putting 2.3 tyres mtb tyres on 19 mm internal width rims perhaps even a 2.5. My SS still does with 26 ers

I ride 3 " tyres on 30 mm internal and a 38 mm on a 19 mm ( road) IMHO its just the current trend ( go wider) rather than it really matters

I wasn't riding a bike 3yrs ago

I've had 2.25" tyres on 25mm rims and they look good. They obviously look rounder on 30mm rims but still OK.
I wouldn't want to put my 50mm (2") tyres on the 30mm rims though!

[Valerio]

Thanks all for the suggestions.

A doubt i have is if 25mm (internal width) rims would be more appropriate for the riding I do, or if I should just go with bombproof 30mm wheels (which would probably be too big for 45mm tyres).

Any heavy-handed person out there riding 25mm rims?
30mm seems to be the standard for mtb nowadays

Sounds like you're stuck somewhere between GRVL and MTB in your riding, Valerio, which is kinda where I am and your Cutty and my Cascade would have us placed too. I'd base your choice on the tyres you wanna run rather than perceived bombproof-ness of any width. FWIW, I use 30mm rims for 2.3 and up tyres, and 24mm for 38mm up. As Lazarus alludes to, wider tyres on narrower rims can work just fine but in my experience wide rims and narrow(er) tyres can be more problematic.

You're absolutely right Hyppy! It's an odd place to be isn't it hahah and I'm also toying with the idea of adding a suspension like you've done with the cascade.
With the Peak District 20-30km away from me I have a decent amount of tarmac and smooth gravel to do before getting to the gnarly stuff, meaning I like to use fast tyres. Once there I do enjoy wide rubber though!
Having only one bike i feel I've got a good compromise, but a compromise still.

25mm rims would be more versatile (I believe). I have no idea if there would be any significant advantage with 30mm other than more robustness?
Reason why this is critical for me is that if I decide to go with 25mm rims, then the only way is to get them built for me. 30mm wide rims can be easily found off the shelf.

[Alpinum]

I'm looking to upgrade my monstergravel bike and I'm looking at wheels first.

I'm a clumsy 90kg(14+stones) rider and use my bike on a bit of everything from tarmac to singletrack, including some gnarly Peak District trails.
Tyre widths I use go from 45mm to 2.3".

I have 2 cheap 29" alloy wheelsets, one with 25mm internal width and 2" tyres, one with 30mm internal width and 2.25" tyres.

Good choice to upgrade your bike with new wheels. I find it makes to most difference.
If one want lighter, stiffer and less maintenance requirement wheels, I find carbon to be the answer. Not any carbon wheel but many. For 45 mm to 2.3" I suggest anything around 25 internally. 30 mm int. will give you a square shape on 2.1 and narrower. Shoulder knobs will stand vertically, leading to poor cornering grip and high rolling resistance. Nothing too dramatic, but if you like to push your bike in corners it's surprisingy "fun" (dicey).

- Carbon vs alloy

I think you answered this yourself:

I understand carbon wheels can save some weight, are stiffer and tend to stay truer (unless they fail catastrophically) compared to alloy.

Sums it up well.
I'm sure every regular rider would be surprised when doing a back to back comparison between very decent alloy and regular (say one in the 800 - 1200 quid range) carbon wheelset. With the rims I ride/rode the difference in stiffness and weight are well noticeable, even more so on 29" wheels and rider above 80 kg.

You can get customised Lightbicycle wheelsets with rims of your choice, some type of Sapim spokes and nipples and a choice of hubs, also DT350 for example. If they don't show a specific option you're after, drop them a message. Through them you can get a long lasting carbon wheelset starting at about 800 quid (with above mentioned choices), yet the build quality lacks somewhat in the end stages, asking for taking yourself about 30 min/wheel for putting force onto the rim and correctly tensioning and trueing (if needed).

My LBS is always happy to do wheels for me; I bring along the Lightbicycle rims, they do the rest. This ends up costing about 900 - 1000 CHF. Going down this lane I get ready to ride wheels that don't need any attention after some inital rides and also very little many months in. They bathe the nipples in linseed oil; less corrosion and slippage on treads. I'm sure Rich and Shona can do the same for you.
I'd give them a call and see what they can offer.

Regarding hubs I used to use Hope for many years until, after perhaps about 5 years, the freewheels cracked. With this amount of use it have happened to me about 3 times (on different bikes). Since 2017 I started using DT350 on all my trail bikes and 240 on my gravel bike. It's only now that one rear hub (with about 12000 km) has minor play. As some others on here I too, Iike how quiet they are, thanks to the ratchet, which in case of failure would be extremely easy and cheap to replace.

Spokes; couldn't tell a difference between similar types of DT or Sapim. Same with nipples. Use brass.

If you go tubeless on eg a 24 mm int. rim, use 26 mm tape, so the tyre bead can sit on the tape.

I hope you're still reading... for the rims, I'm a big fan of Lightbicycle rims and for your use suggest looking at https://www.lightbicycle.com/U-shape-29 ... tible.html

For alloy rims I found Easton - now RaceFace make great rims with the Arc line.
DT make good ones too, but don't go for the cheaper DT rims (dent easily and need trueing regularly, despite an expertly lacing). Can't recommend Stans for long term use. Saw too many cracks along the eyelets and completely damaged one about 12 years ago in a strange accident, leaving me surprised how the rim could fail so badly.

If you want to read (even) more about Lightbicycle, use the search function on this forum with "Lightbicycle". It's not that I get them cheaper or anything, I just really like them.

Hope this helps...

[Hyppy]

You can get customised Lightbicycle wheelsets with rims of your choice …

+1 for Light Bicyle as a brand. As a related warning though: I built up a set of their AR46's which I bought without holes drilled in the rim bed to save needing rim tape. Lacing those up was perhaps the single worst bicycle-related task I've ever taken on, needing to fit a magnetic spoke offcut to each nipple before feeding it through the valve hole and using a magnet to work them round and through the spoke holes, hoping not to lose traction and so needing to then try and rattle the loose nipple back out through the valve hole.

[redefined_cycles]

You can get customised Lightbicycle wheelsets with rims of your choice …

+1 for Light Bicyle as a brand. As a related warning though: I built up a set of their AR46's which I bought without holes drilled in the rim bed to save needing rim tape. Lacing those up was perhaps the single worst bicycle-related task I've ever taken on, needing to fit a magnetic spoke offcut to each nipple before feeding it through the valve hole and using a magnet to work them round and through the spoke holes, hoping not to lose traction and so needing to then try and rattle the loose nipple back out through the valve hole.

Always wondered about this and how I'd fare. Glad I never made such an honest mistake and well done.

[Valerio]

I'm looking to upgrade my monstergravel bike and I'm looking at wheels first.

I'm a clumsy 90kg(14+stones) rider and use my bike on a bit of everything from tarmac to singletrack, including some gnarly Peak District trails.
Tyre widths I use go from 45mm to 2.3".

I have 2 cheap 29" alloy wheelsets, one with 25mm internal width and 2" tyres, one with 30mm internal width and 2.25" tyres.

Good choice to upgrade your bike with new wheels. I find it makes to most difference.
If one want lighter, stiffer and less maintenance requirement wheels, I find carbon to be the answer. Not any carbon wheel but many. For 45 mm to 2.3" I suggest anything around 25 internally. 30 mm int. will give you a square shape on 2.1 and narrower. Shoulder knobs will stand vertically, leading to poor cornering grip and high rolling resistance. Nothing too dramatic, but if you like to push your bike in corners it's surprisingy "fun" (dicey).

- Carbon vs alloy

I think you answered this yourself:

I understand carbon wheels can save some weight, are stiffer and tend to stay truer (unless they fail catastrophically) compared to alloy.

Sums it up well.
I'm sure every regular rider would be surprised when doing a back to back comparison between very decent alloy and regular (say one in the 800 - 1200 quid range) carbon wheelset. With the rims I ride/rode the difference in stiffness and weight are well noticeable, even more so on 29" wheels and rider above 80 kg.

You can get customised Lightbicycle wheelsets with rims of your choice, some type of Sapim spokes and nipples and a choice of hubs, also DT350 for example. If they don't show a specific option you're after, drop them a message. Through them you can get a long lasting carbon wheelset starting at about 800 quid (with above mentioned choices), yet the build quality lacks somewhat in the end stages, asking for taking yourself about 30 min/wheel for putting force onto the rim and correctly tensioning and trueing (if needed).

My LBS is always happy to do wheels for me; I bring along the Lightbicycle rims, they do the rest. This ends up costing about 900 - 1000 CHF. Going down this lane I get ready to ride wheels that don't need any attention after some inital rides and also very little many months in. They bathe the nipples in linseed oil; less corrosion and slippage on treads. I'm sure Rich and Shona can do the same for you.
I'd give them a call and see what they can offer.

Regarding hubs I used to use Hope for many years until, after perhaps about 5 years, the freewheels cracked. With this amount of use it have happened to me about 3 times (on different bikes). Since 2017 I started using DT350 on all my trail bikes and 240 on my gravel bike. It's only now that one rear hub (with about 12000 km) has minor play. As some others on here I too, Iike how quiet they are, thanks to the ratchet, which in case of failure would be extremely easy and cheap to replace.

Spokes; couldn't tell a difference between similar types of DT or Sapim. Same with nipples. Use brass.

If you go tubeless on eg a 24 mm int. rim, use 26 mm tape, so the tyre bead can sit on the tape.

I hope you're still reading... for the rims, I'm a big fan of Lightbicycle rims and for your use suggest looking at https://www.lightbicycle.com/U-shape-29 ... tible.html

For alloy rims I found Easton - now RaceFace make great rims with the Arc line.
DT make good ones too, but don't go for the cheaper DT rims (dent easily and need trueing regularly, despite an expertly lacing). Can't recommend Stans for long term use. Saw too many cracks along the eyelets and completely damaged one about 12 years ago in a strange accident, leaving me surprised how the rim could fail so badly.

If you want to read (even) more about Lightbicycle, use the search function on this forum with "Lightbicycle". It's not that I get them cheaper or anything, I just really like them.

Hope this helps...

Thanks that's very helpful!
I had a look at the Lightcycle website....wow so many options including stuff I haven't even thought about yet.
6bolt or centrelock, 32spokes or 28, type of spokes, nipples, carbon layout etc etc