I'm feeling the cold more than I used to and need to rethink my sleeping setup. My goto for a few years has been a Snugpak Softie Merlin 3, and Klymit Inertia Ozone mat. Nice and compact, with the bag a 'comfort' rating of 5º, and next to bugger all insulation from the mat. I reckon I don't get a good night's rest when it gets below perhaps 7º these days, or rather these nights.

So, getting a proper mat is a given—I'm thinking the sea-to-summit ones are better value than therm-a-rest—but beyond that I'm not sure what makes most sense financially or practically. Does anyone have experience with the bag liners that claim to give a few more degrees? Or whether a lightweight quilt might be more versatile to layer with the bag when it's cold or as an alternative to the bag when warm. Or if I just need to bite the bullet and get a more winter suitable bag?

Better mat defo.
I use a liner as it's certainly more comfortable than the bag on it's own, and has to be a bit warmer.
In the end I bought a down sleeping bag and not looked back.

You might find a new mat is all that's required. We lose more heat to the ground than we do to the heavens.

I would get the better mat and see how much difference that makes - you'll probably find that's all you need. But if you do need more, of your options, I'd probably go for a quilt for the flexibility. I've tried liners and not really got on with them.

Also, what do you wear to sleep in? In theory, insulation will be more effective, pound for pound, in your bag than worn, but I find a base layer helps more than it should. Perhaps a micro fleece one if you're already using something thinner.

thenorthwind wrote: ↑Wed Jan 31, 2024 9:39 am Also, what do you wear to sleep in?

That's a very valid point: I'm guilty of going au naturel too often, and really ought to remember to make use of my old-school Helly Henson LIFA long johns and top.

Hyppy wrote: ↑Wed Jan 31, 2024 10:42 am

thenorthwind wrote: ↑Wed Jan 31, 2024 9:39 am Also, what do you wear to sleep in?

That's a very valid point: I'm guilty of going au naturel too often, and really ought to remember to make use of my old-school Helly Henson LIFA long johns and top.

Remember that bag ratings are for the user wearing a lightweight base layer so you'll feel colder when au naturel. Also the base layer will help keep the bag clean.

Thermorests are dear but have good aftersales - my 3 year old neoair suffered and aneurism a couple of years ago and I got a new updated one FOC from Cascade. Mine has been OK on ground that had been -10 the day before I bivvied - just....

Seas to summit are heavier than thermarest but moderately more comfortable ( but I sold it and only use my thermarest as its a lot lighter and good for all year round use the sea2summut winter one is double the weight and a lower r value - or at least it was.

I use a sol escape bivvy lite ( 150g) packs to can size ) Claims to be rated to 10 degrees on its own ( probably survival not comfort) as a bag liner. It also means you can just get into a bag filthy if you want or use it outside your bag if its a very damp( condensation) bivvy experience. Also carry as an emergency shelter for general riding just in case I am imbolised etc

The liner in Joe’s shop is good & could be worth considering, I use one during the colder months-
https://www.weirdosonbikes.com/product/ ... ag-liners/

I've got the Sea to Summit thermal liner and it's done the job for me. I can use it with my summer bag and base layer/long johns and be warm enough in winter.

Half price at the minute if you buy direct https://seatosummit.co.uk/products/ther ... ctor-liner

They do 2 warmer versions than that if you need more

In Reverse wrote: ↑Wed Jan 31, 2024 3:19 pm I've got the Sea to Summit thermal liner and it's done the job for me. I can use it with my summer bag and base layer/long johns and be warm enough in winter.

Half price at the minute if you buy direct https://seatosummit.co.uk/products/ther ... ctor-liner

They do 2 warmer versions than that if you need more

That is what I have and it's good. Can sleep in it alone if it's a warm night :)

I've had a Snugpak Softie 3 Merlin since the mid 90s, great bags, and I used mine a lot back then when I was doing a lot of touring.
I also carried a goretex bivi bag and found that on colder nights that would significantly improve warmth as well as protecting against condensation.
I've now got a SOL Escape Bivi bag and used it in the same way with my Softie bag last year and it also turned a cold night into a comfortable night, and is lighter and more compact than my old goretex bag, although I think not as durable.
Also, I've used a silk liner in the past which also boosts warmth quite a bit.
I'm considering one of the Sea to Summit thermal liners now.

Thanks Everyone, it's always good to get real-world recommendations for this stuff.