Bikepacking / ITT specific coaching.

[Bearbonesnorm]

I suppose I should have said 'ultra' as that seems to be a popular word but .... I couldn't bring myself.

Anyway, coaching tailored towards those not going home for their tea. Good luck to the lad.

https://www.acier.cc/

[fatbikephil]

I 'spose there are enough young uns into this to get him some trade.
I wonder if he has a 'tussock' module in his programme?

[Bearbonesnorm]

I wonder if he has a 'tussock' module in his programme?

In all seriousness (for a change), I was wondering if it's possible to be taught the mental resilience or even stubbornness that's often required and I'm kind of thinking i's something that is probably already within your character and grows with experience?

[riderdown]

, I was wondering if it's possible to be taught the mental resilience or even stubbornness that's often required

Yes, HM Armed forces specialise in this, obviously plenty come with it already as do many who never see a uniform

[fatbikephil]

I wonder if he has a 'tussock' module in his programme?

In all seriousness (for a change), I was wondering if it's possible to be taught the mental resilience or even stubbornness that's often required and I'm kind of thinking i's something that is probably already within your character and grows with experience?

I inherited mine (it would appear) so quite tricky to teach. Thinks... how would you teach it??
"It's not that bad
Stop being a wuss!
think of the bragging rights!
It could be worse" (actually the best one)
etc....

That said, I don't think you can teach bone headed stupidity...

[Verena]

There's also these guys n gals, just up the road from me

https://dotbooster.com/

Have also had me wonder about the whole concept of it.

Curiosity would fancy being fly on the wall...

But definitely not for me....

[fatbikephil]

Scenario planning....

"You are knee deep in glop. It's dark, you haven't a clue where you are or where you are going. The 'line' is pointing at an impenetrable jungle, you are 19 hours in and potentially 19 hours out, it starts to rain...."

It occurs to me that a fair few folk have acquired the stuff someone is willing to charge you a mint for, simply by doing it for themselves, making foul ups, learning, trying again, trying again and again. And again....

[Lazarus]

Ride a lot,, work your way up, overcome adversity and learn

That will be £200 please.

[Hyppy]

I made use of a general cycling coach when I signed up to 'race' my first 1000km self-supported event, but that was more to build fitness and to gain better physiological knowledge than it was about mentally going the distance. I can sum up the advice given as 'stop riding at threshold, dickhead!'

[boxelder]

Some people gain a lot from being tutored for stuff. Paying someone to impart knowledge is a big part of their preparation and building the 'mental strength' to achieve/overcome. Knowing you can do it is a world away from hoping you can do it, and having someone assure you of that, alongside all the HR zones and feeding strategy stuff is maybe what they'll gain. There are an increasing number of coaches about too, so offering something different probably makes sense. The balance of disposable income:time will come into it too.

[Alexinthepeaks]

Its definatley a niche in the market and i expect he could potentially do quite well if he markets himself at the right demographic.
Their is potentially a very high cost involved with entering such events when you add it all up, especially when you factor in training time in the run up. If you want to be competative in endurance events / races people may decide that paying for training tailered to a particular goal is actually cost effective in terms of both time and money, it will also provide significant structure / accountability / motivation in the run up, which even very experienced people really struggle with.

[slarge]

A very common cause of not finishing long hard events is "my head went". So if you can build/train mental resilience then there's money to be made.
Having a positive outlook puts people a step ahead, but knowing how to deal with setbacks can be a learnt skill.

[Alexinthepeaks]

100%! in the run up the the LL300 FKT i used visualisation techniques to anticipate difficult times and scenareos. When those arose i could simply refer back to my visualiamsations which helped me process what was going on and allow me to navigate that difficulty without really giving it too much headspace. Alot of those techniques were passed over to me by a clinical psycologist (my mum) and without those skills i would not be as resiliant. If an experienced trainer can impart those bits of knowledge and techniques onto a already strong rider with the aim to conquer long distance events, then that will create a very formidable package.

[jameso]

'it's just like riding a bike'.. so we tend to just learn and improve as we go. Most sports or activities involve some coaching to get better though. Fitness coaching should boost mental strength in an event if only because you're able to cope better physically, which helps mentally?

If the training gets you to the point where you're able to cope with a number of days at a pace that feels like progress rather than survival, I think coaching could be money well spent. The experience and lessons you take away can be huge and the training discipline is part of it. How you get the motivation for the work involved will vary rider by rider, but with structure and suitable training methods from a coach you're going to have a much better chance of seeing improvements that build confidence and get you into an upwards cycle.

I spent 6 months on a focussed training plan a long time ago and the results were pretty good, worth the effort. I created my own plan because I like figuring things out for myself - talked it through with a friend who'd been coached to Cat 1 & Ironman ability, read Joe Friel's blog, worked out some levels and got a turbo trainer etc. Would I have paid a chunk of money for the how-to? Yes, now I know what difference it can make. Might I have got a better result from coaching? Probably, but absolute performance wasn't my goal.
One thing that training plan left me with was an understanding of how my regular riding can be as enjoyable as it always was yet biased towards being more effective in keeping a base fitness level, so a period of coaching's got potential benefits to our riding in the long-term.

Aside from avoiding hypothermia or illness etc I suspect the mental game is mostly your source of motivation, why you want to do something at a base level. Wanting to say you've done a #ultra might not see you through but wanting the experience for all it brings should do, if you're physically able in the first place.

[whitestone]

Physical training is well (but not completely) understood - push your body, recover, rinse and repeat.

You can do the same basic things year in year out but eventually you'll suffer the law of diminishing returns and hit a plateau. It's why you see headlines like "Tennis player X has parted with their coach and is now partnering with Y". It's not that their previous coach was no good, but they needed something to give them a kick up the proverbial, and of course the science moves on.

Bikepacking (or the ITT side of it) is really "just ride your bike for a long time"... "and then ride some more". As Hyppy says - you don't ride at threshold pace, the pace is at the top end of what you can hold a conversation at. Read Neil Beltchenko's account of his (then) fastest time on the HT550 - he and Chris Hope were chatting for much of the time. The difference being that they were riding at a much faster pace than the rest of us because they were fitter but it was still the same relative effort for them as for us. 70% of 400W FTP is always going to be faster than 70% of 300W (for the same sized individual).

Someone once said that you don't judge an individual on how they react when things are going right but how they deal with things when they are going wrong. Like Steve says, you need to know how to deal with setbacks: chain snaps when you are between Glen Golly and Bealach Horn? Sure there'll be an initial "OH! FFS!" but after that you just have to get on with it. Sit down and fix it. If the weather is rough then put up your shelter so you've some protection. If it's really bad then pushing on and getting down to lower ground might be the better option - you can freewheel much of the descent.

[Hyppy]

Someone once said that you don't judge an individual on how they react when things are going right but how they deal with things when they are going wrong.

That's where Misery Training comes in, either intentionally so or serendipitously: going out for a ride because it's peeing down; turning into that headwind on purpose; relishing the fact that you've dropped your last flapjack into a bog; embracing that puncture that just won't seal; appreciating that you've just descended 5km down the wrong valley, etc, etc. If you can get through these things when it doesn't really matter, then come race time its far far easier to deal with. And of course, the more you train the more likely you are for sh1t to happen, which is a win-win.

Addendum: And so for Strata Florida, Stu, we thank you!

[jameso]

It's a good website too.

Good luck to the lad.

+1

[fatbikephil]

Someone once said that you don't judge an individual on how they react when things are going right but how they deal with things when they are going wrong.

That's where Misery Training comes in, either intentionally so or serendipitously: going out for a ride because it's peeing down; turning into that headwind on purpose; relishing the fact that you've dropped your last flapjack into a bog; embracing that puncture that just won't seal; appreciating that you've just descended 5km down the wrong valley, etc, etc. If you can get through these things when it doesn't really matter, then come race time its far far easier to deal with. And of course, the more you train the more likely you are for sh1t to happen, which is a win-win.

Addendum: And so for Strata Florida, Stu, we thank you!

Definitely. After my miserable bail from the HT in 2014 my prep for the following year was to put myself in the most difficult situations I could think of (plenty available locally!) So I 'spose a coach would provide the motivation and situations for this. My motivation was much slagging from friends if I failed again...

Yes and it also culminated in the Strata Florida

[Valerio]

Wishing him all the best, I think there's definitely a market for it, including people looking to be competitive and perhaps winning ultra races, as well as people approaching the discipline for the first time and keen to get to the start line prepared.
Considering one could easily spend over £1000 on a wheelset to save some weight....putting the money on one's own training makes a lot of sense to me.

Having said that one should be careful with who they give their money to.
A friend recently failed to hit his PB on a marathon after training (remotely) with a coach for several months. The day after the coach told him that he should have probably had more carbs (duh!!!) which is something he had overlooked completely.
At an event this year I sailed past a self professed ultra-coach which shouldn't really happen considering the gap in training ans experience.

I am a bit skeptical about one's ability to train the mind without first hand experience.
I can't see how one could train for Strata Florida....but now I could hit a brick wall with a smile on my face

[Dave Barter]

I wonder if he has a 'tussock' module in his programme?

In all seriousness (for a change), I was wondering if it's possible to be taught the mental resilience or even stubbornness that's often required and I'm kind of thinking i's something that is probably already within your character and grows with experience?

I had a quick look at his products and they are not dissimilar to the coaching I had when I used to race on the road. I'm not sure I see where ^^ comes out clearly in his offering. There are phrases like "Psychological preparation and techniques" but as you say I think this is the crux in many ultra-events. Personally, I'd want to see clear expertise in coaching to fend off the "quit" instinct. The Tour Divide (for example) is basically a 3 week exercise in not quitting. Good luck to him and there is definitely a niche for his offering. I think he'll do well.

[thenorthwind]

Perhaps one gains a psychological advantage simply by having paid someone a presumably large amount of money to teach them not to quit... could also be argued that the Yorkshire folk among us have an unfair advantage in that regard

[redefined_cycles]

In case ever comeone mistakenly comes on this thread looking for 'head' advice. I trained for the Everesting - mountain bike edition and despite looking at many different kodes of Everesting completions I never found one that was actually proper mtb and properly steep (in sections) - so I needed lots of 'mental' advice.

Unless I'm chasing someone, my head usually tends to give up well before my legs. I think it worked cos I stayed on the trail (some sleeping, other minutes walking or riding so slowly that the gps thought I was walking, and other bits and bobs) for almost for about 30 hours inclusive of about 4 hours of sleeping time.

I used the Strength Running podcast by Jason Fitzgerald. So much input from different ultra runners, injured athletes that came back stronger and lots of other people doing head-banger type stuff without concern of query. Also used the Everesting podcast but aside from a few very informative interviews/discussions to help with mental strength, none were as good as that Strength Running coach.

Cost = £zero.

[Bearbonesnorm]

Cost = £zero.

But do remember, for some an item without cost represents an item without value.

[redefined_cycles]

That's very true. Some people are built different I suppose. In which case, I reckon the amount I've learnt on here since 2016 must be worth a good few £100s or alot more.

Dread to think how much a bikestyle coach would charge

[riderdown]

Yes and it also culminated in the Strata Florida

In the dark, by yourself