does a route need to be before it crosses the line that separates 'decent day ride' from 'bikepacking'? I realise everyone will likely have a different answer and that terrain, time of year etc will also play a part.

I ask, as I've just received a book for review and over half the routes featured barely break 60 miles. In my mind, that seems more 'big day' than 'multi day'? Only two routes are (just) longer than 100 miles - and they're the TCW and the Triban Trail.

It think it depends on how you want to approach it. Whilst I would quite happily ride a 60+ mile route in one as a day ride I've been on bikepacking trips that are shorter.

For example the BB Gower ride was only 53 miles long, but with lots of people to talk to, stopping, cafes it didn't seem like were going slowly to drag it out.

Mine and Mike's recent 2 dayer in Scotland was only 57 miles but throw in cafes, calling in at a bothy, riding bits of trail centre on the way and it soon uses up the time. We did start late morning and finished just before lunch the second day so mayve that was a days riding split over 2 days?

But if I* was going to publish a book of bikepacking routes I'd probably make them a bit longer that 60 miles.

* I once thought that after a 300km ITT the best course of action was to ride another 100km to get back home so I might not be the best judge of what's a sensible distance to cover

Almost too many variables to be definite: experience; fitness; terrain; etc. all play a part iif the routes are described as “beginner “ then fair enough but otherwise I’d expect a two day route to be in the 100 mile range

When it's literally impossible to do it in one day. Problem is that mileage will vary from person to person
Personally 60 miles ( not Highlands or lakes with 8000m of climbing) is a day ride and agree 100 is about the start point ( or 200km in metric so 100km per day)

I'd go with what Sean alludes to. 60 milers are generally day rides for alot of people on here (or even, half-day rides) but most people would see a 40 miler as a max-per-day ride. I'd imagine 40 miles would be alot more chilled out and able to take in the scenery and local stuff.

Definitely would probably want to pack lots of stuff to keep you 'doing-stuff' with all the extended stops (I suppose). You mught not be the best person to review sucha book Stu!

Again depending on the terrain and weather, also what time of day you start out.

Take the WRT leaving at 1pm
Sat - up to 30 miles
Sun - 50 miles (maybe another 70 would be ok if less hilly or technical without any pushing
Mon - 20 miles to the start.

Take the Cairngorm outer loop
https://welovemountains.net/bikepacking-cairngorms/
This page says 19:38hrs of riding - 143 miles and 8800ft of climbing
I know racers can bag this in a day,
But I'd rather take 2 and a half days to do this with 2 overnights.

You might not be the best person to review sucha book Stu!

A bikepacking guide to Wales. I'd have thought I was quite well placed for the job

Ah, the routes are in Wales, so that 60 miles has 20,000 feet of climbing and only 5 miles is on a rideable surface

Is the book aimed at beginners? Those just starting out might have more kit (heavier bike) which will slow progress and they won't be used to riding a loaded bike.

o that 60 miles has 20,000 feet of climbing and only 5 miles is on a rideable surface

No, they're not my routes

Is the book aimed at beginners?

Although not stated as such, things like kit selection and how to behave yourself in the countryside, etc are mentioned. Also, perhaps the simple fact that it's a guidebook would also indicate that?

You might not be the best person to review sucha book Stu!

A bikepacking guide to Wales. I'd have thought I was quite well placed for the job

Good point I was talking about the shorter distances (and possibly rideable trails). Hopefully they'll have lots of HAB in there

I reckon that's a good starting point. Two 30 mile days with an overnight stop somewhere seems to me like two days worth spending on a bike, probably without too many time pressures. Start adding stuff like getting to and from the start/finish, extra distance, shorter daylight hours in winter, what if I have a mechanical somewhere...?, and something that you should be able to comfortably fit into a weekend may become a 3 or 4 day trip with added need for accommodation.

I reckon guidebooks are often going to cater more towards the less experienced demographic for many pastimes - if you set the initial bar too high, then you lose a lot of folks' interest. For those who are happier riding further/longer, there's often an option to link routes together, or use them as an initial backbone of a route that you can then add on extra loops, diversions etc. I've done this kind of thing with Jack T's Lost Lanes series to great effect.

Also, just over 60 miles has the advantage of being easily convertible to SI units to impress your friends and/or colleagues with when you casually tell them you bikepacked OVER ONE HUNDRED KILOMETERS at the weekend.

I think 30-40 miles a day off-road is a fair intro to bikepacking for most people. The terrain will make a big difference won't it, or the day is measured by number of hills rather than distance.
If you're up and out early and ride until late evening or beyond you'd normally cover more than 30-40 miles but the long days or ITT mentality towards routes is a minority thing, I think touring attitudes are more common now? ie stopping more often, a social thing rather than bashing out the miles alone.

I recall a trip I did in 2011. On the fifth day I rode from Braemar to Aviemore in a day and I thought it was hardcore - 45 miles... to that point I'd been doing 25-35 miles with lots of stops, faffing and starting late and finishing early. So it depends on what you want to do and how long you want to stop for. Plus it depends on your chosen shelter - it's difficult to spend QT in a bivvy bag but if you have a nice airy tent you can laze around for hours in the evenings and mornings... Throw pub and cafe into a day and you've just added 3 hours!

Jeremy Ashcrofts '80's mtb guide described a 28 mile route in the dales as being one for those with a thirst for distance so it's all relative I suppose.

Any route can be a bikepacking route. You don't have to be riding all day to be "bikepacking". IMO the only element required for a good bikepacking route is just a nice spot to stop and camp, distance isn't a big factor in making it a good route or not.
Even for the hardcore racer types a 60 mile route would make a nice weeknight trip. 3-4 hours riding after work then a couple of hours home again the next morning.

^ this a good point.. ride to camp Vs camp to ride, the way you see it changes the value of distance.

If it's the book I think it is, then from my office I've overheard some of the conversations that went on in my other half's office as to what to include in it and indeed other similar titles. And 'what is a bikepacking route' is very easy to answer when compared to 'what is a gravel route?'

Thanks for the input all. I feel happy to proceed now, although I'll admit to a little surprise that there aren't perhaps a couple of 'real' multi-day routes included ... perhaps almost as an incentive, something to work towards perhaps?

Also, I think ride to camp / camp to ride is a very valid point and changes perspective with regard to many things. Trouble is, I've only just explained that in John's piece about chairs

Bearbonesnorm wrote: ↑Mon Jun 19, 2023 4:10 pm Thanks for the input all. I feel happy to proceed now, although I'll admit to a little surprise that there aren't perhaps a couple of 'real' multi-day routes included ... perhaps almost as an incentive, something to work towards perhaps?

Also, I think ride to camp / camp to ride is a very valid point and changes perspective with regard to many things. Trouble is, I've only just explained that in John's piece about chairs

Which chair is 'the bottom line' please... I'll be needing one to rest between reps on my Everesting Pls... Somwthing that manages unlevel ground ok pls Stu.

Ignore me... Big Ag UL I see is your common sense suggestion. Ta

Which chair is 'the bottom line' please... I'll be needing one to rest between reps on my Everesting Pls... Somwthing that manages unlevel ground ok pls Stu.

Don't really know Shaf. John thinks that the cheaper Ali / Lidl chairs take some beating when you take everything into account.

Bearbonesnorm wrote: ↑Mon Jun 19, 2023 1:30 pm

You might not be the best person to review sucha book Stu!

A bikepacking guide to Wales. I'd have thought I was quite well placed for the job

You've always told me Welsh miles are different to English miles.
That might be your answer.