An interesting read...

[fatbikephil]

...you may not agree with all he says but food for thought...

https://bikesnobnyc.com/2023/02/10/jeff ... own-words/

[voodoo_simon]

Enjoyed reading that, food for thought!

[Tomwoodbury]

Thanks I enjoyed that. Although at 43 and 23 years of sitting at a desk for half the day I appreciate front suspension AND big tyres at low pressures at the end of a long ride.

[Boab]

So who's prepared to lend me a Jones for a few weeks to test then...?

[voodoo_simon]

For years I lusted after a Jones, really liked them it in the last coupl of years, the lust has gone. Not sure why!

Would still like to try one though, although that could be a dear do!!

[whitestone]

While I couldn't afford a Jones I mainly ride a rigid frame and have been able to keep up with decent FS riders on (some) descents but with slightly different lines. I spent 18 months or thereabouts getting the bike set up (couldn't rush it as each iteration would take a month or more for my hands to get back to normal).

Going to plus sized tyres changes things, they certainly take out the trail chatter from the smaller stuff but they are much more sensitive to getting the correct tyre pressure - too soft and they are tricky on hard surfaces, too hard and you can end up pogoing down the trail if you manage to get the rebound frequency matching the trail undulations, no suspension dampening. Of course fat bike tyres take that to another level

There's also the simplicity and lack of "essential" maintenance, I mean having a recommended service interval of 50hrs or whatever for a suspension fork is taking the proverbial.

[fatbikephil]

So who's prepared to lend me a Jones for a few weeks to test then...?

If ever your up by, I'll let you have a shot of mine Boab.

The problem now is that a frameset will be the wrong side of 2 grand which pretty much makes it unaffordable unless you really, really want one. I was talking to Dave at Bothy bikes about this, and he was telling people to book a holiday in the states and buy one over there as you'd save several hundred quid.

Andy at Stooge has definitely been influenced by Jones but his bikes are subtly different, although not in any way a bad way, probably the opposite. I kind of think the door is open for someone to do a direct copy in this country...

[Bearbonesnorm]

I've ridden a few Jones and some I've liked and others, not so much. There seems to be some difference between models. However, you've got to love someone who follows their own path even if a thousand others are going in the opposite direction at times.

[Stinginglip]

I'm definitely in the Jones camp now..always wanted one and been using the h bar for years on various bikes. My brother has a real knack of finding bikes on fleebay and he got hold of a steel diamond [older) 29er with Ti truss which rode lovely but ultimately the lack of ability to fit big tyres saw it being moved on.
He then found a Lwb plus steel diamond which he was raving about from day one and very happy especially on the 29x3 rubber. Fast forward a couple of months and I'd nipped round his gaff for something or other and I nearly got whiplash glancing in his spare room and casually leaning against the wall was the latest version of a steel diamond Swb plus looking pretty weird with 35mm g-one tyres.
It'd only just come in stock(as he calls it) and he'd not even rode it and still hasn't to this day as a deal was stuck faster than I ripped the 35mm tyres off!
My Stooge dirtbomb was sold to a mate and my fat bike got neglected as I was ragging about on a bike I'd hankered over for ages
We made a few efforts to actually ride together as the Jones brothers but stayed on our own steeds mainly because I'm fussy as when it comes to bike set-up. Next thing I know our kid had been talking with Jones HQ and a Ti diamond Lwb Plus with Ti truss was on order...serious commitment for sure
This left his steel Lwb on the chopping block and I took it for a demo for a couple of rides before its departure...big mistake..I was smitten on the demo and keeping in the family happened
So there we are..2 blue Jones bikes in the stable which certainly assisted me getting it past the better half..it actually was about a month before she asked if that is a different bike? No love..had it ages

[Pirahna]

We've got his and hers Jones. They're the original frames with truss fork, mine is a diamond, wifey has a space frame.

[fatbikephil]

I've just worked out I've done 12000 miles on mine since getting it at the beginning 2017. Not bad in amongst the others...
I've idly contemplated a ti one but cost aside I'd be sorry to part with this one as we've been through too much together!

[Stinginglip]

Fatbikephil..we have actually met on the YD300...I remember talking about your Jones and the lack of gears! I was on my dirtbomb before I acquired a Jones

[fatbikephil]

Fatbikephil..we have actually met on the YD300...I remember talking about your Jones and the lack of gears! I was on my dirtbomb before I acquired a Jones

Ah yes, got you now - I've pushed it up a lot more hills since then....

[jameso]

So who's prepared to lend me a Jones for a few weeks to test then...?

Took me a few hours test ride to start to 'get it' and maybe 4 months of owning one to adapt my riding style to suit it. If it worked out I'm happy to arrange a day for you riding mine. It's the original geometry 29er rather than the Plus Phil has though. The Plus blew me away, so agile for such a big bike. In the end I stuck with the original 29er for it's all-road / ATB cross-over ability.

The problem now is that a frameset will be the wrong side of 2 grand which pretty much makes it unaffordable unless you really, really want one.

The route to market makes them arguably poor VFM at RRP, I've had >11 years from a steel diamond + truss frameset though and at £1400 RRP that's good value overall imo.
My Ti spaceframe was £1800 at 1.8 $:£ rate a long time ago and that was also 11 years old when I cracked the fork. A good innings I thought. It's not going to be this way for all owners but for me, I like the way the ride so much that I've not been interested in buying other bikes eg FS frames, so they've been a good overall spend per mile influence for my riding.
To be honest though there's an element of owning interesting examples of bike design in all this, in the same way I'd like a Moulton or why bought a Colnago Master. I'm a big fan of Jeff's approach to bike design. But I'd not ride a Jones for that alone, it's the ride quality / range of riding it covers well that keeps me on them.

And.. there is no better singlespeed bike, FACT. (almost a fact )

[Boab]

So who's prepared to lend me a Jones for a few weeks to test then...?

Took me a few hours test ride to start to 'get it' and maybe 4 months of owning one to adapt my riding style to suit it. If it worked out I'm happy to arrange a day for you riding mine. It's the original geometry 29er rather than the Plus Phil has though. The Plus blew me away, so agile for such a big bike. In the end I stuck with the original 29er for it's all-road / ATB cross-over ability.

I think the things that peeked my interested, was all the talk about sore hands. While I've never really suffered from sore hands on my old road bike, nor on my gravel bike (pre-crash), I've never ridden a MTB that hasn't some sort of hand issue. After a long ride on the gravel bike, it's my triceps that go first and start hurting, on pretty much every MTB, I lose feeling in my middle three fingers, sometimes in as little as half an hour. Now I know this is most likely due to a position on the MTB that's too loosely based on my position on my old road bike, so there's far too much weight on the hands, and not enough hand positions to alleviate the pressure.

One of the things I found out last year with the old On-One OG bars, was that tilting them downwards made things worse, so there might be something in this more upright, going to the shops, position after all. Due to a moment of idiocy, I still haven't had a chance to try Andy's Crazy bars that he sent over last September. Hopefully those and some twerks to my position, like a sorter stem, might help.

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink. If you lead it enough times though, it might eventually go, feck it, I may as well try it and see. At the end of the fay, all I want is a bike that I can go and ride for as long as I want, and when I get off, I don't want to feel like I've been attacked with a baseball bat.

[Bearbonesnorm]

Where are your brake levers set Bob? Many people fit the levers so they're nearly parallel with the ground. This puts quite a bit of pressure on your wrist and palm. Much better IMO to tilt the levers down - aim for something that keeps your wrist straight when STOOD* and reaching for the levers.

*Generally speaking, any hard / serious braking on a mountain bike should be done from a standing position. If not, then it's very hard to counteract braking forces.

[whitestone]

As Stu notes, the levers should be towards the ground.

A quick measure with a level app on my phone and those on my Solaris are about 36deg below horizontal. The Solaris currently has standard MTB bars. The Spearfish has Jones loop bars and I thought from eyeballing things that the levers are at an even greater angle - but the app reckoned they are at 35deg. Obviously must be right for me

I sorted my hand issues (I was getting tingling/pins and needles in small and ring fingers) by tilting the saddle nose DOWN by about 5deg. You do need some reasonable core strength to help counter the tendency to slip forward. My MTB saddles are textured so also less likely to slip forward. I think the reason is that the nose of a level saddle keeps bashing into err "soft tissue" so you overcompensate and move your weight forward and put more pressure on the hands. Cath was having similar problems - we tilted her saddle down and it cured it almost overnight. I came across the nose-down setup in a piece about the British Women's track cycling team having bike fit problems. British Cycling did some research on it and presented it to the UCI who changed their rule about level saddles.

[Boab]

Where are your brake levers set Bob? Many people fit the levers so they're nearly parallel with the ground. This puts quite a bit of pressure on your wrist and palm. Much better IMO to tilt the levers down - aim for something that keeps your wrist straight when STOOD* and reaching for the levers.

They were set like this. Always tried and keep the arm / wrist / hand in a line when seated, so once the forks come back, I'll have to have a play.

[Bearbonesnorm]

Try it Bob, you might find it helps. Mine are generally below 45 degrees