Tyre inserts

[PaulB2]

Just curious as to whether anyone has tried using tyre inserts or if its just a expensive solution to a non-existent problem. The whole idea of going tubeless so you can lower tyre pressure and putting what is effectively a foam tube to stiffen up the sidewalls back in seems overcomplicated to me.

[Lazarus]

Not me but a mate[14 st @ 6ft4] did and he still gets pinch flats when he reduced the pressure- same pressure as before it works as before. Might be worth considering if you pinch flat a lot ?

Its test sample of 1 though

[fatbikephil]

I kind of got the feeling it was a DH / enduro thing and it was then promoted for all round use if you were using weedy tyres. But I think the weight of the insert plus the weedy tyre is more than the weight of a tyre with thicker sidewalls. Seems a faff to me and if you get a puncture which needs a tube you then have to stash the insert somewhere.

[jobro]

Excuse the stupid question, but do you still use sealant with an insert?

[fatbikephil]

Aye it's a tubeless thing so the sealant is still needed for sealing tyre beads and any holes you get. I believe the insert helps with initial set up as it pushes the tyre beads to the rim edges. Someone I know whose tried them said you could seat a tyre using a hand pump with the insert. I've not actually used one myself, to be clear, I've never felt the need having looked into them yonks ago.

[faustus]

Yep. Not ever planning to use one myself, seems like extra fiddling and something else covered in gunk. Guess it makes sense if you ride chunky terrain, and riding hard. As ever, the marketing/branding has turned what is essentially a swimming pool noodle into a £90 thing....

[PaulB2]

It only came up because I read an article on gravel specific tyre inserts that was fairly complimentary so I was just curious if people have had positive experiences. I tend to run my gravel bike in a 80 / 20 road / off-road setup with 40psi in the tyres and my mountain bike isn't tubeless and has pretty chunky tyres on it so I'm probably not the target market.

[Boab]

I ran a Tannus Armour in my rear wheel for a while, as I got a couple of pinch flats with Conti Terra Trails. Totally killed the handling and feel, stopped using it when I switched to Panaracer GravelKings and haven't looked back. Got a colleague who swears by inserts, I think he runs CushCore though; but then he does chuck himself down the sides of mountains.

[Alpinum]

Just curious as to whether anyone has tried using tyre inserts or if its just a expensive solution to a non-existent problem. The whole idea of going tubeless so you can lower tyre pressure and putting what is effectively a foam tube to stiffen up the sidewalls back in seems overcomplicated to me.

That's what I thought for a couple of years, despite using on in a rather specific bike, but with the advent of many different options I'm convinced with the upsides (also for XC types of riding, or even wide gravel bike tyres) they're well worth looking into.
Having thicker sidewalls gives you a different feel than an insert - more on that later - but would also help with cuts. So one may think, thicker sidewall is better.

But then... (taking my case as an example) I struggled to find the right pressure with a large volume (rear) tyre like a 27.5 x 2.8" Magic Mary on a fast hardtail in mostly chunky terrain (the bike I mentioned above). Cuts not really an issue here. Low pressure and it felt planted, a bit springy, but not harsh and grippy. But then I collected tons of punctures. A fraction more pressure and it felt harsh and was hard to hold.
Then I tried an insert. The lightest HuckNorris which would still fit my tyre/rim. Was about 80 g iirc. A set of two cost me about 45.- chf getting them from the Swiss distributor.
I soon found a pressure I was very happy with. Superb grip, less bouncy, less harsh and no punctures. I got exactly what I was hoping for since the insert reduces the air volume and adds some progression to the spring rate of the tyre, giving that lovely feel. One you don't get with thicker sidewalls. Impacts don't ping, or damage the tyre/rim, just a thud, a hit that resonates much more dampened through to my contact points with the bike. I was happy to find what I was looking for with a lightweight option, rather than a 150 - 200 g heavier tyre (as for the Schwalbe options) or a beefier insert like CushCore.

For the bike I use most for bikepacking (short travel trail bile) I like light 29 x 2.6" tyres and since I've found a good range of pressure to work with I don't see the need here as much as with the hardtail, but can well imagine that I'd get more fun and comfort (call it performance if you like) with an insert. An the other hand, as mentioned by boab (if I understand him correctly), there's a loss of feedback from the terrain. Never tried one up front, but can imagine I wouldn't like it either.

I believe the insert helps with initial set up as it pushes the tyre beads to the rim edges

Yes, once they're mounted, they pop into the rim easier.
But to get inserts and tyre mounted can be proper cr*p. Depends heavily on type of insert. Mostly the beefier inserts are proper cr*p to mount, the light ones easy.

As ever, the marketing/branding has turned what is essentially a swimming pool noodle into a £90 thing

As ever, folks like to use the most extreme option to make a point
If you go to your lbs or online, you'll find many options to be 20 - 50 quid. But yeah... cut an old, fat foam mat apart, get pipe insulation etc. and diy.

In the last 3 years the offer of different types of inserts has grown. Light weight, heavy weight, wide tyres, narrow ones, different wheel sizes etc. With this, things have changed, also the way I look at inserts.

HT550 with a lightweight insert (there are options as light as 60 g for 29" tyres and wide rims) in the rear on a light weight mtb tyre for more comfort, compliance, grip and not having to pay as much attention on square edged hits. Why not? Worked well for Alan G. by the way.

Totally killed the handling and feel, stopped using it when I switched to Panaracer GravelKings and haven't looked back.

did you ride inserts front and rear?

[Bearbonesnorm]

the insert reduces the air volume and adds some progression to the spring rate of the tyre

Did / do you find they provide some natural damping Gian? I used to like the slow release Maxxis tyres as the compound made them a little less 'springy' or even 'pingy'.

[Alpinum]

Did / do you find they provide some natural damping Gian? I used to like the slow release Maxxis tyres as the compound made them a little less 'springy' or even 'pingy'.

Yes. I don't know if the more dampened feeling I get on the 27.5 x 2.8 tyre comes from the reduced air volume or the ccf allowing for some compression... probably a bit of both, but it does feel more dampened.
True, rubber compound makes a difference too. I rarely changed compounds of the same tyre model, but on Magic Mary (soft vs. ultrasoft) or Minions (dual vs. Maxxgrip) riding was sligthly different. I remember a moment of relevation riding a slabby (full of slabs) mountain path I often rode.

I guess thicker sidewall (more rubber) will add to more damping too, but not in the amount an insert does.
Thinking about different compounds, I can imagine this and thread design makes more of a difference than an insert. Just guessing.

[Boab]

Totally killed the handling and feel, stopped using it when I switched to Panaracer GravelKings and haven't looked back.

did you ride inserts front and rear?

Just the rear, as it was one of those, it's either too hard, or it's a pinch flat. Never had a problem with the front so didn't bother.

[Alpinum]

Just the rear, as it was one of those, it's either too hard, or it's a pinch flat. Never had a problem with the front so didn't bother.

Cheers