what is a bikepacking bike?

[stevenshand]

Since finishing up at Shand I've been doing quite a lot of consultancy/design for other brands but I've just started to build frames again (www.willowbike.com) and I've had a ton of people looking for a 'bikepacking' bike. When I dig a little deeper, it turns out that everyone's idea of a bikepacking bike seems to be different.

What does a bikepacking bike look like to you? If you had to pick 3 things that defined a bikepacking bike to you, what would it be?

Steven

[woodsmith]

Something that fits in with the ATB manifesto. https://bikepacking.com/plog/atb-manifesto/ and definitely not a gravel bike. I want my route choices to be limited by my fitness and abilities not by the bike I'm riding.
I feel like the term "bikepacking" has been so diluted by its # adition to everything on two wheels as to be useless. It should IMO be defined by the routes ridden ( majority offroad and including an overnight) rather than by the style of luggage being used as now seems to be the case.So for me the ability to fit up to 3" tyres, flat bars, Rohloff compatability.

[Bearbonesnorm]

Ooh, what a can of worms Steven

My personal opinion is that 'bikepacking bikes' don't exist, yet at the same time, every bike is a potential bikepacking bike and how well it's suited to the task will largely depend on the answer to another question - what is bikepacking? So in answer to your last question - two wheels and a saddle.

From what I see, a rigid or hardtail 29er still appears to be the most popular mount amongst those who've been around a while. However, that would seem to be at odds with what many sectors of the industry portray and those just beginning their journey are possibly much more likely to be drawn towards something sporting drop bars (I've not used the word gravel there as that opens up another question of what is a gravel bike and what is a drop bar mountain bike? ).

Simply, I tend to think that if someone asked you to build them a 'bikepacking bike', then they'd likely expect it to look like a gravel bike. If they didn't, then I suspect their request would be far less vague. I also tend to believe that 'bikepacking' defines an attitude in a similar manner to 'punk'.

[ton]

i dont really like the term 'bikepacking'. to me bikepacking is cycle touring,or offroad cycle touring.
and i think any bike that is capable of carrying luggage without causing bike handling issues is fine. and the ability to take a wide tyre is a bonus.

of all the bikes i have ever owned ( which is many) the most suitable is my present one. and that is run to a close second by a surly ecr.

[jameso]

Do people want bikepacking bikes or bikes they can use for general riding plus a bit of bikepacking a few times a year?

[Bearbonesnorm]

Thinking out loud ... I'm wondering whether the term 'bikepacking' is now becoming more acceptable? I say that as for a few years, the industry appeared to distance themselves from it and instead seemed to prefer the word 'adventure' to describe bikepacking? Okay, I've stopped thinking now.

[woodsmith]

Thinking out loud ... I'm wondering whether the term 'bikepacking' is now becoming more acceptable? I say that as for a few years, the industry appeared to distance themselves from it and instead seemed to prefer the word 'adventure' to describe bikepacking? Okay, I've stopped thinking now.

Judging by the advertising, promo videos etc put out by the bike industry bikepacking is synonimous with gravel biking which has lead to a few people I have met out riding to feel that they've been mis-sold a bike that really isn't suitable for UK riding. Scotland, the Dales, Peaks or the PBW are not Kansas.

[Lazarus]

I have gone with unfashionable approach of just answering your question

Comfortable geometry for all day riding.
Rigid or 100mm travel forks
Lots of bolts to attach things to it( mudguards. Bags. Racks bottle mounts
If given a forth. Sliding dropouts or something so it can be easily used with SS or different sized wheels but that one is probably just me and one bike to do it all ( says man with 6 bikes )

[Bearbonesnorm]

I have gone with unfashionable approach of just answering your question

Oi, you know this is the internet don't you?

[Bearbonesnorm]

Judging by the advertising, promo videos etc put out by the bike industry bikepacking is synonimous with gravel biking which has lead to a few people I have met out riding to feel that they've been mis-sold a bike that really isn't suitable for UK riding. Scotland, the Dales, Peaks or the PBW are not Kansas.

I've been saying exactly this for years which is why I've likely gained a reputation for 'anti-gravel' when in fact, I'm really 'pro-gravel' but 'anti-industry bollox'. I think the situation is further compounded by where many riders are coming from ... those with a mountain bike background will often find a gravel bike far less limiting than those with a road pedigree and limited off-road skills.

Don't take a knife to a gun fight and moan if you get shot ............ unless someone tells you to

[Lazarus]

Agree we don't really have many gravel routes in the UK and it's rarely the correct bike. Trans pennine trail is better on a gravel bike IME

[PaulB2]

If I was to take my gravel bike, which I've used for light touring a couple of times, and turn it into a bikepacking bike, I'd want lower gearing for off-road riding, a slightly more upright position for all-day comfort and wider tyres/suspension for rougher terrain. So basically a 29er hardtail without the current trend of LLS geometry.

[woodsmith]

If I was in the market for a new road bike today I wouldn't get one, I'd get a gravel bike. Many of the back roads near me that are quiet enough to be relatively safe to ride on are in a shocking state and steadily reverting to their constituent components. Plus GRX gearing or its equivalent makes more sense for a bloke in his 50's than a bike equiuped with the same groupset as a 23 year old in the pro-peleton.

[voodoo_simon]

4 or 5 years working in two different bikes shops and I’m afraid the easy conclusion is
-drop bar
-up to 50mm tyre on 700cc (but they never wanted that much width)
-carbon fork with three bolts either side of the leg
-1x system as front derailleurs always mess up
-bottle mount underneath frame
-bikepacking ALWAYS use soft luggage…

Conversations would usually start with “where are your bikepacking bikes?” and would usually be less by me saying “mountain bike, gravel bike or do you have something else in mind etc” and then the above list would come out Don’t think I ever sold anyone a mountain bike for bikepacking

So in short, the public want a gravel bike

I don’t think much really beats the Salsa El Mariachi except perhaps a slightly more updated version but think they basically got it almost right.

[faustus]

Drop or flat bar will be customer preference and to a degree terrain driven (though not mutually exclusive). Agree that ATB manifesto covers a great deal anyone could want.
Versatility - mix of geometry compromises that cater for decent handling but also comfort, mounting choices: racks, 3 pack mounts, mudguard mounts etc., wheel size options or at least large tyre width variation, component compatibility for different build choices - wide gearing options
Comfort - Geometry - not too low stack, componentry, generous max tyre size
I guess more compromises but more options than a focus on a particular discipline...?

EDIT - what Simon said is doubtless what people think they want mind, above is mainly what i desire...

[whitestone]

Back to the question in the thread title...

A bike you can strap bags to. You can also use panniers if you want.

I think that covers it

For mostly road based routes then a drop barred bike with enough clearance for wide (say 45mm+) tyres. For mostly off-road then a rigid 29er is fine but if you want suspension then go with that.

[Johnallan]

Comfortable
29*3
low gears*


*Bonus points if it's single-speedable

[Alpinum]

What does a bikepacking bike look like to you? If you had to pick 3 things that defined a bikepacking bike to you, what would it be?

Steven

Hi Steven. All the very best with Willowbike.

Since I bikepack on all sorts of bicycles in all sorts of terrain I'd have to answer with things like two wheels. Sort of tubing from plastic or alloy to hold it together and a means to propel the thing.
Now... how about to start unicycling.

So in short, the public want a gravel bike

Or "... in short, the public has once again been brainwashed by the industry..."

Steven, just make a couple of the Lancia Stratos scheme bike, like the one you made for Ian. It was so good looking, every single cyclist will want one, including myself.
And they will surely be very handy for most kinds of off road riding.

[Alpinum]

If I was to take my gravel bike, which I've used for light touring a couple of times, and turn it into a bikepacking bike, I'd want lower gearing for off-road riding, a slightly more upright position for all-day comfort and wider tyres/suspension for rougher terrain. So basically a 29er hardtail without the current trend of LLS geometry.

Well... also basically a LLS geometry. Long low slack has absolutely nothing to do with eg how upright your sitting. You can be sat very upright at 500 mm reach with 62° HTA a low stack and a 1300 mm wheelbase without being beyond 180 cm tall. There's more to fit then some numbers from a frame.
Eg a low stack can also mean you get more options with bar heights

[slarge]

My Planet X hardtail would be perfect if it had a slightly bigger main triangle. So El Mariachi, Whippet, anything like that is the perfect set up (for me).

There's a lot of people out there pushing trends and fashions as they make money out of you when you buy into it. In every walk of life. So a bikepacking bike today will be different to what it was 5 years ago and in 5 years time.

But to answer the question you really have to know how specific the bike needs to be to the task or whether it needs to be a generally good all rounder.

I've used my old Stumpjumper FSR, my CX , road bike, Epic, Planet X hardtail for "bikepacking" depending on the route I was intending to take.

I haven't used my butchers bike even though it has a massive basket on the front, but only because I can't lift it over a fence. Apart from that it should tick many boxes.

[stevenshand]

Steven, just make a couple of the Lancia Stratos scheme bike, like the one you made for Ian. It was so good looking, every single cyclist will want one, including myself.
And they will surely be very handy for most kinds of off road riding.

any excuse to post a picture of that bike!

[Bearbonesnorm]

Having just read through all the replies, I can't help thinking that as bikepackers we're perhaps the wrong people to be asking?

[Ben98]

I think it was Stuart who (years ago) in comparing touring and bikepacking suggested that the big difference is the intent of the trip.
- Bike touring is travelling by bike, the sightseeing, camping etc are all integral to the experience and the riding is almost secondary. Carrying extra to make the evenings/nights more comfortable to the detriment of the riding enjoyment is almost necessary to enjoy the tour more overall.
- Bikepacking is using bivying/camping to extend a ride, the riding is the point and the camping a means to riding further. Because the riding is king, carrying less and in a more balanced way makes the most sense and the bare minimum to get through the nights is the tradeoff for better riding.

Obviously there is overlap and not everyone hates minimal bivis or riding heavy loaded bikes, but I think it makes a fairly clear distinction that I use to mentally label my trips.

With this in mind, I would suggest that a bikepacking bike is a bike that you want to ride so far that you can't fit it into one day and a bike that can carry enough gear to spend a night/s out in such a way as to retain the enjoyment of that riding - regardless of the cycling discipline.

Not sure thats a helpful answer from a market research perspective though

[errol]

Is bikepacking just another industry marketing label like 'down country' as an excuse for over priced/unnecessary stuff to be justified as trendy for the fashionistas?

Have you seen the price of some the plastic wheeled drop handled stuff? Fliipin eck, £10k for a beefed up road bike! (Ducks)

Surely it's more about the journey than what you are on? ,( caveat. It's got to be comfortable!)

Quite happy with my Bootzipper 29er! Does it all without any fuss! And still got change from £10k, approx £9.1!!

[Bearbonesnorm]

Is bikepacking just another industry marketing label like 'down country' as an excuse for over priced/unnecessary stuff to be justified as trendy for the fashionistas?

I don't think so. It's a name that describes the action perfectly and besides, it was in use well before the industry showed even the slightest interest in milking said cow.