This time, Snowdonia. You can expect big scenery and some big climbs. Given the lack of legal routes Cycling UK can promote, it does look good. And it starts/finishes just 1 mile from me in Conwy.
It is at the proposal stage, whatever that means but it does look pretty good tbf

https://storymaps.arcgis.com/stories/21 ... 7d6719f057

Looks interesting with even a hint of tussocks!
Quite good layout of the website too

Ooh, there's a few 2014 BB200 bits in there

Bearbonesnorm wrote: ↑Tue Sep 13, 2022 8:54 pm Ooh, there's a few 2014 BB200 bits in there

And some of 2019

I think I trudged some bogs around that part of Trawsfyndd last year.. looks like a good route and I trust they'll do better I that area than I did :)

Surely that's crying out for looping back to Mach. Maybe across to the Clwyds, down through the Berwyns?

That's the route I'll be riding in a few weeks! Got a sneaky preview from a mate in the business.
Plan on riding north to south and incorporating a trip up Snowdon.

Seeing as we have some locals on here. 100mm full suss, or rigid 29er? Have both and love them equally.

Seeing as we have some locals on here. 100mm full suss, or rigid 29er? Have both and love them equally.

It really is a case of you'll have the wrong bike 50% of the time, so no right or wrong.

Just thinking about this and the mention of 'consultation'. Why? The majority of the route uses RoW that have existed for years. Anyone could go and ride it tomorrow and many BB veterans will likely have ridden much already. Why do they need a consultation? Is it a box ticking exercise because NRW are involved or are they planning on erecting signage and altering what's already in place on the ground?

BTW - Mach' isn't in Snowdonia

Bearbonesnorm wrote: ↑Wed Sep 14, 2022 8:09 am Just thinking about this and the mention of 'consultation'. Why? The majority of the route uses RoW that have existed for years. Anyone could go and ride it tomorrow and many BB veterans will likely have ridden much already. Why do they need a consultation? Is it a box ticking exercise because NRW are involved or are they planning on erecting signage and altering what's already in place on the ground?

BTW - Mach' isn't in Snowdonia

Maybe just to hone the rider experience?

TBH I really support Cycling UK in this work as I think they are using it as a base to gain us more access. They are trying to get more riders out on backcountry routes to counter the criticism that its only a few idiots who do it therefore don't bother opening up RoWs to cyclists. The KAW is a massive success and riders I know who would never ever have considered a multi-day offroad ride have/are thinking about giving it a go.

Stu wrote: BTW - Mach' isn't in Snowdonia

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snowdonia

That green bit at the bottom looks suspiciously Mach-like to me . I wouldn't have thought it. I once read somewhere that someone thought Pumlumon was in Snowdonia!

Dave wrote: TBH I really support Cycling UK in this work as I think they are using it as a base to gain us more access. They are trying to get more riders out on backcountry routes to counter the criticism that its only a few idiots who do it therefore don't bother opening up RoWs to cyclists. The KAW is a massive success and riders I know who would never ever have considered a multi-day offroad ride have/are thinking about giving it a go.

As a die-hard rebel against 'Routes' (*) even I have to admit that this is a very good point well made....

(*) in 60 years of biking I've only ever done the TransCam and even that was only because I was roped in on the promise of a beer at the end - where of course there's no pub anyway.

Snowdonia starts the over side of the Dyfi Reg - just over the bridge. I'm surprised you've not noticed the 'welcome to Snowdonia' signs

Surely that's crying out for looping back to Mach. Maybe across to the Clwyds, down through the Berwyns?

You could easily(ish) tag the Offa's Byke route on. You'd need a couple of linking sections but they'd be straightforward.

BTW - Mach' isn't in Snowdonia

The end point in Conwy is outside the National Park boundary too, but I suppose that's the point in a route that crosses somewhere.

Bearbonesnorm wrote: ↑Wed Sep 14, 2022 8:09 am Just thinking about this and the mention of 'consultation'. Why? The majority of the route uses RoW that have existed for years. Anyone could go and ride it tomorrow and many BB veterans will likely have ridden much already. Why do they need a consultation? Is it a box ticking exercise because NRW are involved or are they planning on erecting signage and altering what's already in place on the ground?

I guess they are looking for us die hards to feedback on whether a section is rubbish or not? Or if they need to add in more tussocks! Thinking about the chat on the Norfolk route mebbes they want to know about bits that you'll get shouted at. You could offer consultancy services Stu!

I wondered about it only being a one way rather than a loop but I guess they are trying to encourage people to access it by public transport and that's not a bad way to do it.

Bearbonesnorm wrote: ↑Wed Sep 14, 2022 8:09 am BTW - Mach' isn't in Snowdonia

See also the Second City Divide

I seem to remember there was a survey asking various people which was England's second city. Brummies said Brum, Mancunians Manchester, folk from Leeds chose Leeds etc.

Scousers said London.

Dave Barter wrote: ↑Wed Sep 14, 2022 9:01 am

Bearbonesnorm wrote: ↑Wed Sep 14, 2022 8:09 am Just thinking about this and the mention of 'consultation'. Why? The majority of the route uses RoW that have existed for years. Anyone could go and ride it tomorrow and many BB veterans will likely have ridden much already. Why do they need a consultation? Is it a box ticking exercise because NRW are involved or are they planning on erecting signage and altering what's already in place on the ground?

BTW - Mach' isn't in Snowdonia

Maybe just to hone the rider experience?

TBH I really support Cycling UK in this work as I think they are using it as a base to gain us more access. They are trying to get more riders out on backcountry routes to counter the criticism that its only a few idiots who do it therefore don't bother opening up RoWs to cyclists. The KAW is a massive success and riders I know who would never ever have considered a multi-day offroad ride have/are thinking about giving it a go.

I was out riding above Malham at the weekend and there was a lad riding Land’s End to JoG via the GB Divide route as a tour. He’d done the Great North Trail previously so these “official” routes do get done.

When we did the KAW there were loads doing it and obviously you don’t see those in front or behind riding at a similar pace.

For the posher “tramp” having a route that passes regular supply and camping spots is a big draw.

I think folk are perhaps misunderstanding me - I get all the reasons why CUK produce routes and why people ride them but why the need for a public consultation ... in my experience, it tends to indicate that you're expecting some form of objection. The route already exists, there's nothing new. Someone has simply plotted it and given it a name.

I could be wrong but I don't recall other CUK routes having a consultation ......... or is that the reason this is?

It’s most likely to get views on whether there are better alternatives. Better as in better riding or perhaps less contentious or avoid a rare nesting bird (the HT550 avoids the area just north of Corrimony bothy for just this reason)

Bearbonesnorm wrote: ↑Wed Sep 14, 2022 10:34 am I think folk are perhaps misunderstanding me - I get all the reasons why CUK produce routes and why people ride them but why the need for a public consultation ... in my experience, it tends to indicate that you're expecting some form of objection. The route already exists, there's nothing new. Someone has simply plotted it and given it a name.

I could be wrong but I don't recall other CUK routes having a consultation ......... or is that the reason this is?

"Cycling UK is working with Natural Resources Wales "

Could be that?

I'd suspect it is an exercise dictated in large part by the public body or linked to whatever funding is involved. Having done so avoids post-project criticisms of "we don't want it, no bugger asked us" etc. Gives those in "officialdom" a get-out-of-jail card

It can elicit the odd response that might be of use. I doubt they particularly need route input though if anything significant comes up I imagine they'd pay heed.

Potential problem is that the process can be dominated by vocal, well connected or organised entities. Sometimes positive but also negative (and of course that depends on your position on the proposal) . You have to watch out for the process being overtaken by single, highly polarised views at the expense of a broadly supportive but not particularly vocal "silent majority".

Kieran Foster / Labrat sometimes pops up on here and is usually happy to explain and discuss.

Just my 2p and experience from work / volunteer stuff.

The consultation is standard practice for local/national government and public bodies - it allows everyone to have their say.

There could be a local farmer for instance who has a bridleway on his land, and for the 10 people/year who use it that broken gate / boggy bit / dairy bull in the field is not worth dealing with. However this would allow that farmer to propose an alternative or fix the issue or apply for funding to fix the issue. Also it would remove said farmers opportunity to complain at the hordes of general public now tramping/riding through fields etc.

Plus it does allow the route quality to be improved as existing users can advise of better options.

I think that making it a circular route would make it a far better option - whether that's for logistics planning or bag carrying or whatever. I am wondering whether a trip around November BB200 time is worth considering.

There's not much of an alternative either as Snowdonia does lack bridleways. Looking at the route It does miss some good bits but the legality of it is not in the favour of CUK. So for that reason there's a few country lanes thrown in to be on the safe side.

sean_iow wrote: ↑Wed Sep 14, 2022 9:39 am

Bearbonesnorm wrote: ↑Wed Sep 14, 2022 8:09 am BTW - Mach' isn't in Snowdonia

See also the Second City Divide

Must admit Glasgow and Manchester aren’t in Snowdonia either

Edit - on a serious note, be a nightmare for trains/transport to the start and finish as you couldn’t use a return ticket, but would need two singles and therefore costing more!