Packable v Heavyweight Waterproofs

[Boab]

With an eye on the changing of the seasons, I've been looking at getting a proper MTB type waterproof trail jacket. Mostly after my experience on the WRT earlier in the year, when I left my Galibier Tourmalet in the car, not doing that again. The postie turned up yesterday with a package containing an Endura MT500 Waterproof MTB Jacket II and a dhb Trail Waterproof Jacket; the dhb was ordered as it was on a certain Monsieur Sehili's SRMR kit list. Folks on here have mentioned taking a MT500 jacket on trips, but after handling both of these, I'm wondering how...?

The dhb seem pretty lightweight and packable, at the expense of ventilation options and (potentially) durability; I've no worries about managing to find a place for it in one of my bags. The Endura on the other hand, looks like it could survive a nuclear blast; but it has loads of ventilation and I run hot. I have to say that my heart wants the Endura, as it looks like it's built to last, like with antislip pack patches on the shoulders and all that ventilation, but I have no idea how, or where, I stow it when I'm not wearing it.

Given I'd love to do something like the HT550 at some point, I feel like a beefier option would be sensible, but I'm worried about how often I'd actually use it.

Just wondering how people go about packing these heavier weight waterproofs...?

Or is it a case of something like the MT500 doesn't get packed, as it's only for trips where it pissing it down from start to finish, (i.e. riding with Reg) so you never take it off...?
So really I need both...?









Yes, I know I'm overthinking this, and I actually want a POC or Patagonia jacket, but ...

[Asposium]

Goretex paclite jacket and trousers

In fact bought a new pair of trousers ready for the Goldilock next week and the HT550 in two weeks.
Cycling tends to ruin trousers, so treat as disposable

[Bearbonesnorm]

It perhaps doesn't help much but I find cycling waterproofs to be generally less use than 'outdoor' waterproofs.

I also imagine something like the Endura is designed to be worn rather than carried. Packability probably ranks very list on most mountainbikers wish lists.

[boxelder]

I roll mine up and tuck it under the straps on the Wildcat bar harness. Slight loosening and retightening of 2 buckles and it's ready.

[fatbikephil]

My jacket always goes in the front roll, whether it's the lightweight one (Columbia outdry lite) or the heavy one (Paramo Quito). I like a heavy water proof, i.e. the Paramo, for cooler temps. Whenever it starts raining on cooler days, it's nice to drag something on which is both totally waterproof and warm. It's also nice when you've held off putting waterproofs on so are wet, wearing a jacket which will allow stuff to dry underneath it.

I noted Sophiane Selli used a DHB jacket on the TD and Silk road race but he's sponsored by them. DHB stuff is OK but I wouldn't rely on it in a marginal situation. He is probably getting a new one every ride so it may be OK but I suspect the Endura is a better bet.

[benp1]

MT500 is about as packable as all 3 layer waterproofs. OK if you have the space, but not tiny if you don't

I'm still using my Outdry for bikepacking as it's sufficiently waterproof to be reliable, and the pitzips means it's not TOO much of a sweatfest

I have a few waterproofs that get used for various things (e.g a R@pha core one that is really very packable) but I'd definitely want something reliable if I was heading somewhere where rain could be a problem.

Looks like Sofiane is sponsored by wiggle/CRC so all his kit comes from them. I did have a dhb jacket a while ago and it was bloody ace, but it suffered a fatal blow involving a washing machine so I no longer trust it

[Bearlegged]

Another vote here for rolling up a heavy waterproof and strapping it to the front roll or saddle pack.

[gairym]

I roll mine up and tuck it under the straps on the Wildcat bar harness. Slight loosening and retightening of 2 buckles and it's ready.

Same here but under my Wildcat seatpack straps.

Oh, and a different jacket but you get the idea...

Big, serious waterproofs only come on trips where it's raining a lot at least some/half the time and so I don't want it in with my clothes but need it very handy.

[thenorthwind]

I roll mine up and tuck it under the straps on the Wildcat bar harness. Slight loosening and retightening of 2 buckles and it's ready.

Same here but under my Wildcat seatpack straps.

Same (though Blackburn seatpack).

Hate to sound like a stuck record, but it really sounds like you need an Outdry. Solid waterproof, but can be rolled to approximately the size of a 500ml bottle. Admittedly not the most breathable jacket ever made, but would leave room for a tiny packable water resistant windproof if you really needed.

[Boab]

Yeah, I appreciate that Monsieur Sehili is sponsored by them, so that he maybe would take something different if he was paying his own money. I thought it interesting that Josh Ibbett switched from dhb to Albion, and that they do a potential option; quite spendy, but 100% recycled fibers and an orange option. I quite like the sound of all their stuff, at least from reading their website, ticks a load of ethical consumer boxes, which dhb and Endura don't.

Just wish all these companies, including Columbia, would post a clear breathability figure for their garments, as I've no desire to buy a boil in the bag jacket again. I also worry about durability of things like Outdry, given a pack would be rubbing on the actual membrane.

I think part of the problem is that I don't really know what I want, and I'm probably trying to cover multiple scenarios with one item, when multiple would probably be better.

As for the original question; thanks for the replies about where you all store your jackets. I've often thought that the one weak spot of my Restrap saddle harness, is that all the cord to pack stuff on the outside is on the bottom, right in the way of all the poor show thrown up by the rear tyre. I know the buckle bit on the top probably means they couldn't fit any on top, but it seems like a bit of an oversight...

[Bearbonesnorm]

ust wish all these companies, including Columbia, would post a clear breathability figure for their garments, as I've no desire to buy a boil in the bag jacket again. I also worry about durability of things like Outdry, given a pack would be rubbing on the actual membrane.

While beathability is nice, I generally tend to figure that I'll trade a bit of sweat and clamminess for the ability to keep the entire contents of the sky at bay for 3 days. A jackets ability to breath will matter very little if you're p1ss wet through

Doesn't seem to be too many issues with the longevity of Outdry Bob, no doubt helped by it not been reliant on a DWR.

[Lazarus]

Pacakble i use shakedry on the road / summer ( think expensive not at all study but very breathable. So thin it's says not to use a back pack with it
Outdry thin one would take for multi days as it will survive an interaction with the ground or thorns
Both packed where I can easily reach them ( often under straps)
Winter proper outset but I just wear it from the start . I find all waterproofs a bit sweaty but outdry always works and when you put it back on in the morning the inside is still dry . No dwr so works for ever( same with shakedry. The perfect waterproof does not exist but they are the closest IME.

[thenorthwind]

ust wish all these companies, including Columbia, would post a clear breathability figure for their garments, as I've no desire to buy a boil in the bag jacket again. I also worry about durability of things like Outdry, given a pack would be rubbing on the actual membrane.

While beathability is nice, I generally tend to figure that I'll trade a bit of sweat and clamminess for the ability to keep the entire contents of the sky at bay for 3 days. A jackets ability to breath will matter very little if you're p1ss wet through

Doesn't seem to be too many issues with the longevity of Outdry Bob, no doubt helped by it not been reliant on a DWR.

Agreed re. breathability.

Despite me recommending it, I should point out I have had some delamination issues with my Outdry, which I've discussed on here, but they seem to be isolated. Need to follow up on it actually - the jacket's actually sat behind me to remind me it's on today's rainy afternoon to-do list.

[fatbikephil]

Aye the breathability thing is tricky. Paramo is great but the price is a tendency to leak under rucksack straps or anything else that compresses the two layers against you. In fact I once road down a big hill into a gale force driven down pour and rain got driven straight through it - I was only doing it for about 5 minutes.... It dried out but the columbia would have kept this out. I tend to go with creating a warm fug under a jacket and accept some dampness from either lack of breathability or a lack of waterproofing but very breathable. I'm also looking for something fairly robust. Paramo remains my fave for most foul weather but a year after getting the Columbia (and carrying it on all my trips this year) is leaning me towards it for all year round use.

I've a goretex active jacket for roadying which is waterproof but has no hood and you still get sweaty if its warm. My goretex active trousers have been excellent however - some condensation but they have kept an awful lot of rain out and they are comfortable to wear. I've bought several jackets over the years which have neither been waterproof or very breathable which is annoying....

[rollindoughnut]

I'm wearing my Endura MT500 jacket today, working in the rain. It's been demoted to general wear after buying an Outdry.
It's totally wetted out, and I'm damp and cold. It's a beautifully constructed jacket but it only stayed truly waterproof for one trip. Save your money.

[whitestone]

Probably like most I’ve quite a few jackets plus those I’ve used over the years.

Current summer jacket is an Altura road model. Had it years and it’s now on its last legs. For proper foul weather I’ve an MT500. I used it on the HT550 and coped well with the few heavy showers we had that year. I used it on the really wet and windy BB200 a couple of years ago with just a long sleeved thermal underneath and was more than happy with it then.

The main problem with lighter waterproofs is that they get pushed against your inner layers by any wind so the cold/damp feels like it’s getting through, in some cases it is!

After 50 years of outdoor sports I still haven’t found anything that is right for British conditions particularly energetic activity.

[Dean]

I thought it interesting that Josh Ibbett switched from dhb to Albion, and that they do a potential option; quite spendy, but 100% recycled fibers and an orange option. I quite like the sound of all their stuff, at least from reading their website, ticks a load of ethical consumer boxes, which dhb and Endura don't.

I have found the stronger Pertex Shield variations to be more comfortable than Gore-Tex, it is not as rigid as some GTX jackets and the fabric on the inside is much softer to touch on bare skin. I find the thinner coats cling to the skin and transfers the cold, even if it has not leaked.

I have seen some jackets with active venting (from Berghaus?), opening the main zip slightly funnels air down the torso and out through louvres under the arms.

[Boab]

Thanks all, plenty to ponder on.
Both jackets have been sent back and I continue to trawl potential options and scenarios.

[slarge]

I used my goretex shakedry a lot on the Tour Divide and also road biking in Yorkshire this weekend. It is brilliant - fully waterproof and also breathable. The biggest downsides are fragility and you can only get it in black. But as a waterproof it is completely effective, just don't crash or brush past brambles

[rudedog]

I have a shakedry too - packsize and weight is crazy. I tore a small hole in the cuff, no idea how it happened and I’m always carefully with it so yeah, definitely not durable.

[Lazarus]

Impact with a butterfly?

I always worry when i take it as my waterproof as its just so bloody fragile anything - minor crash brambles etc could shred it and render you very wet and cold - not cheap either but the perfromace is superb

[Bearbonesnorm]

I see little value in something I'm scared to use

[Boab]

I'm put off things like Shakedry (and Outdry to a point), as I can be quite clumsy and have many interactions with brambles, dog roses, blackthorn, etc. I think I'm after something more towards the MT500 bombproof side of things, but with a bit better packability...

[Cheeky Monkey]

Outdry stuff is plenty durable. Probably as good or better than normal cags.

[Bearbonesnorm]

and Outdry to a point

generally seems quite robust Bob. I'd certainly describe my Titanium version as a 'hard shell'.