Let me start with, "I love my Arkose", I really do. I can't really describe why as such, as I've not ridden enough other bikes to compare it to. It's just lovely to ride all day, carries my stuff well. Great yeah... ?

But... I am now a little fidgety as I may have the wherewithal to upgrade said Arkose. Now, why would I upgrade it if I love it? Good question, and really there's only two things I'd change about the bike really, it would be nice if it were lighter, carbon or titanium Arkose? If only.

Also it would be nicer if it could swallow bigger tyres to make it a little more capable in the winter / mud. I'm wondering if full 29+ is worth it, or just going from 50mm max to "normal" MTB tyre sizes?

I'm not particularly picky about frame material. Instinct suggests steel is heavy, but I don't believe that's actually the case in all bikes, I know some people love steel.

So let's say gross build weight under 13kg and min tyre size 29x2.3". Budget... debatable but I'd twitch a bit spending more than £3k.

What's out there folks?

Something in Ti from PX perhaps? I've been really happy with my Goldrush

If you have £3k and the desire for a lightweight "proper MTB" tyres and drop bars then a Salsa Cutthroat has to be worth a look. Either new from Keep Pedalling or there are a couple on eBay that might be the right size/colour.

If weight is a consideration, then I'd be shying away from plus. It's not that you can't build a light plus bike, just that there's probably not much 'off the shelf' and piecing something together won't be cheap.

My personal experience would suggest that the most versatile all round mile- muncher is a 29" hardtail ... I've not said rigid as some folk find rigid hard to live with especially at first. As Rich suggests, maybe something from PX - either Ti or aluminium?

Weight difference between steel and alluminium frames is less than it used to be since the CE standards came out. Even surlys are only half a kilo or so heavier than a similar quality ally frame (gone are the days of 1.5kg cannondale frames.) Going for something that will take bigger tyres is a worthy goal just be aware that (sadly) 29+ tyres seem to be becoming increasingly niche and may disappear altogether at some point. 2.6 seems to be the 'goto' these days and if you look on Bikepacking.com there are plenty of frames out there that will take them.

Always tricky - I keep thinking of ditching the straggler in favour of something a bit fancier but when you look at the dosh involved (c£2k for a Shand frameset in my case) it makes no sense. Which is fine obviously as none of this makes sense.... But I get attached to bikes that I've done lots of riding on and changing them for the sake of saving half a kilo seems a bit traitorous...

This sounds very much like "new and different bike" rather than "upgrade" to me.
Approximately 4 years ago, jameso was quoting approx 1.65kg for the Arkose frame. You could maybe save a bit of weight going Ti, but I doubt it would be much. The Cotic Tonic weighed pretty much the same.

Thanks for all the input so far folks.

So, yes, the Cutthroat is most definitely on the list... in fact I keep coming back to it.

The PX ti options look good, but are either limited on clearance 40-50mm, or don't come with drops. The Titus Silkroad, if it lent itself to drop bars could definitely fit the bill I think.

If money was no object, a Smokestone Mr Harry or Curve bike would be on the cards. I know they'd break the weight limit, but both are true + bikes.
The Mason ISO is a contender, but must say, I'm not over struck by the looks.
Kona Sutra Ltd looks great, but not sure of build weight as yet.
Velo Orange Piolet is somewhat intriguing too.

Are you in a rush? Orders have just opened for the Stooge Rambler frame sets. Designed for drops, big tyres and 'proper' off-road riding.

Speak to Sonder and get something custom made in Ti that meets your requirements

UnderTheRadars wrote: ↑Tue Apr 12, 2022 2:25 pm Speak to Sonder and get something custom made in Ti that meets your requirements

That’s what I did and Neil designed me a titanium Cutthroat-a-like mount laden cruiser and it’s been great. Switched between drop and flat bars and the carbon and a fox fork depending on planned riding. Love it.

How much is a Waltly direct order, these days? The Smokestone looks pretty good for the £ as a ti Cutthroat alternative and saves all the to - fro of a custom. Plus, Graham at Slam69 is a legendarily good bloke.

Oh no..wish I hadn't opened the link to Smokestone bikes now

As an owner of an Arkose X and now also a Ti Silk Road I'd say both great for different types of riding, with the Arkose more road-focused but still capable enough for 'lighter' off road. Mine now has 53mm 650b tyres, lighter wheels, Redshift stem and a eeSilk elastomer seatpost, so pretty comfy off road. TBF, only thing I think it wants for might be triple fork mounts....I do sometimes think a carbon Diverge might be nice but the Arkose just does most things well, and with the upgrades runs great. However, it proved to be relatively hard work on the sun-baked ruts of the Ridgeway near me, hence...

...the Silk Road, running a Jones loop bar (On One copies), with 29x2.6 rubber, and just put some lighter Hunt Trail Wide wheels on it. Seems hugely capable, all the mounting points, rolls through anything but a bit sluggish on road, unsurprisingly. A very different, more upright, riding position than the Arkose. Could take a 100mm suspension fork, but feels to be a short reach so not sure drop bars would work that well...

I like them both. A hybrid between tbe two would interesting and reminds me that, before the Silk Road, I was all set to get the Decathlon Riverside 29er drop bar Adventure bike but there rarely seemed to be any stock.

ootini wrote: ↑Tue Apr 12, 2022 1:42 pmVelo Orange Piolet is somewhat intriguing too.

I'm a very happy owner of a Piolet and I can highly recommend it.

It just feels right for long days covering lots of distance in comfort and style (the bike not me).

And it looks great!!!

Here's mine:



I absolutely love it!

I'd be fancying one of these...custom and lots of customisations available, and beautiful. Fits 29x2.3 too apparently (check the wishbone stays, very lovely)
https://www.stayercycles.com/product/og-plus/

jameso wrote: ↑Wed Apr 13, 2022 1:01 pm How much is a Waltly direct order, these days? [...]

About 1000 Euro incl. shipping (& taxes).

ootini wrote: ↑Tue Apr 12, 2022 11:26 am [...]lighter, carbon or titanium[...]

IIRC my Krampus size L was well north of 3 kg completely naked.
Pipedream Moxie size Longer was 2.9 kg incl. rear axle.
Say about 3 kg for a steel mtb frame for size large.

My custom Waltly fatbike frame with a mix of dimensions between Krampus and Moxie, built to ride stable with 160 kg total load (thick & big tubes used) weighs naked just shy of 2.3 kg.
The Waltly frame feels stable under loads where the Krampus goes all wobbly.

My former & slightly smaller ti fatbike frame (also a Waltly, designed by Muru) was much, much softer again and weighed 1.7 kg.

Quite sure aluminium frames of same size and similar stiffness are also of similar weight as ti frames, perhaps a tiny little bit lighter.

Carbon mtb frames size L mostly weigh 0.9 - 1.2 kg.

I find a lot of ride quality comes from fit and stiffness/complaince of frame and wheels. If you'd like to save weight, have a look at your wheels.

I straight away thought Smokestone Mr Harry when I read your original post Ootini. I'm a bit biased as I've had a Henderson fat bike and now have a Bow Ti LS (both from Smokestone). My gravel bike is a Sonder Camino Ti but I'd definitely have gone with Mr Harry if it'd been available when I was buying. I can confirm that Graham "Smokestone" Foot is an all-round good guy also. That said imho the Salsa Cutthroat is the sexiest gravel bike in existence.