• The Old Chalk Way

Posted: **Thu Mar 31, 2022 9:21 pm**

Posted: **Thu Mar 31, 2022 9:30 pm**

Nice!

Posted: **Thu Mar 31, 2022 9:35 pm**

I've recently seen a video of someone riding that.

Seeing as it appears to be the same route as in the book 'The Chalke Way' which was published in 1995 then calling it a new route is a bit of a stretch

Especially as I seem to remember they bikepacked in the book and the rear cover calls it a Coast to Coast cycle ride along Europe's oldest green roads

Posted: **Thu Mar 31, 2022 10:17 pm**

Ah so it's basically The Peddar's Way, The Icknield Way, The Ridgeway, then presumably bits of the King Alfred's Way, then the other ridgeway...?

Posted: **Thu Mar 31, 2022 11:15 pm**

Boab wrote: ↑Thu Mar 31, 2022 10:17 pm Ah so it's basically The Peddar's Way, The Icknield Way, The Ridgeway, then presumably bits of the King Alfred's Way, then the other ridgeway...?

Yep.Its basiclly sopmeone ripping off the Great Chalk Way and barely even changing the name.

http://greatchalkway.org.uk/

Posted: **Fri Apr 01, 2022 7:43 am**

Actually had a bit more of a look at the route.
Wow, they take you right through the middle of Luton...

That'll be a hard nope from me.

Posted: **Fri Apr 01, 2022 8:18 am**

woodsmith wrote: ↑Thu Mar 31, 2022 11:15 pm
Boab wrote: ↑Thu Mar 31, 2022 10:17 pm Ah so it's basically The Peddar's Way, The Icknield Way, The Ridgeway, then presumably bits of the King Alfred's Way, then the other ridgeway...?
Yep.Its basiclly sopmeone ripping off the Great Chalk Way and barely even changing the name.

http://greatchalkway.org.uk/

A bit quick to assume, perhaps? Give them some possible room for credit and being interested enough to improve things.

I spoke to the guy a bit while he was developing the route - you know I love a bit of chalk : ) He's found alternative sections in many areas and I get the impression a lot of time has gone into making it a better rider experience. None of those routes were developed for riding, just that bikes are allowed on much of them. Eg as many of you will know, the Icknield way is a load of choss in places if you follow the waymarked route. The Ridgeway also has better alternative sections along it ime, all legal byways and bridleways that are along the general direction and close to the waymarked trail, keeping the continuity but improving the riding. The chalk vein is a general direction guide but there's a lot of scope to improve on the sort of stuff that a non-rider thinks is fine to call a bike route because 'mountain bike plus ROW = a route, be happy with what you get'.
Continuity and efficient use of what's available is what you should get when a rider fine tunes a route. Just looking at the areas I know along the OCW and the GCW, considering you can't include every great trail when the UK network is so fragmented and you don't want to end up making it 50% longer than it needs to be, I'd say the OCW uses better trails with a better flow. Looks promising to me tbh.

Wow, they take you right through the middle of Luton...

- yes, on good quality bike paths that I know well (lea valley and the Sustrans at the side of the busway), because diverting around the outside takes longer and is dull suburban riding, traffic etc. He's done the right thing. The Chiltern hills are in sight only a km away at points but it's an area that you're better off getting through on the route suggested in order to take in the trails either side.

You guys might be getting too cynical of good presentation

I'm riding this over the summer, will report back.

Posted: **Fri Apr 01, 2022 8:35 am**

We wanted to create a longer distance linear route with an authentic sense of journey and historical significance across the landscapes familiar to us. The route roughly follows four ancient trails making up the Greater Ridgeway which today are marked as established footpaths: The Wessex Ridgeway, The Ridgeway, The Icknield Way and The Peddars Way.

But much of the existing official trail systems don’t lend themselves to bike riding and in many cases it’s forbidden. So we linked up what we could, and skipped what we didn’t like. Rather than squeezing in every bridleway we could find, we opted for route flow, including enough tarmac to keep the KMs ticking over.

^ from the OCW site. Sounds like it might even be suitable for a gravel bike

Posted: **Fri Apr 01, 2022 8:40 am**

jameso wrote: ↑Fri Apr 01, 2022 8:18 am
You guys might be getting too cynical of good presentation I'm riding this over the summer, will report back.

+1. I live virtually at the start and have thought about following the old existing routes the new route apes a few times. Looks good to me.

Posted: **Fri Apr 01, 2022 9:14 am**

It looks interesting to me, and I like the idea of making it more rideable on the fragmented bits. All too aware of pointless horse-hoof concrete bits of bridleway, just because it's on an official route or is off road. Would rather use a tarmac lane most of the time. I love the idea of going from the North sea to the channel too. I also live very near the route, and it links up bits i've looked at before for getting down to my folks in Dorset (who also live almost on the route).

Posted: **Fri Apr 01, 2022 11:04 am**

jameso wrote: ↑Fri Apr 01, 2022 8:18 am
woodsmith wrote: ↑Thu Mar 31, 2022 11:15 pm
Boab wrote: ↑Thu Mar 31, 2022 10:17 pm Ah so it's basically The Peddar's Way, The Icknield Way, The Ridgeway, then presumably bits of the King Alfred's Way, then the other ridgeway...?
Yep.Its basiclly sopmeone ripping off the Great Chalk Way and barely even changing the name.

http://greatchalkway.org.uk/
A bit quick to assume, perhaps? Give them some possible room for credit and being interested enough to improve things.

I spoke to the guy a bit while he was developing the route - you know I love a bit of chalk : ) He's found alternative sections in many areas and I get the impression a lot of time has gone into making it a better rider experience. None of those routes were developed for riding, just that bikes are allowed on much of them. Eg as many of you will know, the Icknield way is a load of choss in places if you follow the waymarked route. The Ridgeway also has better alternative sections along it ime, all legal byways and bridleways that are along the general direction and close to the waymarked trail, keeping the continuity but improving the riding. The chalk vein is a general direction guide but there's a lot of scope to improve on the sort of stuff that a non-rider thinks is fine to call a bike route because 'mountain bike plus ROW = a route, be happy with what you get'.
Continuity and efficient use of what's available is what you should get when a rider fine tunes a route. Just looking at the areas I know along the OCW and the GCW, considering you can't include every great trail when the UK network is so fragmented and you don't want to end up making it 50% longer than it needs to be, I'd say the OCW uses better trails with a better flow. Looks promising to me tbh.

Wow, they take you right through the middle of Luton...
- yes, on good quality bike paths that I know well (lea valley and the Sustrans at the side of the busway), because diverting around the outside takes longer and is dull suburban riding, traffic etc. He's done the right thing. The Chiltern hills are in sight only a km away at points but it's an area that you're better off getting through on the route suggested in order to take in the trails either side.

You guys might be getting too cynical of good presentation I'm riding this over the summer, will report back.

Oi you don't be coming on here with your balanced views and mature viewpoint and proper information and insight and, and, and .... well ..... just not-being-a-bit-of-a-dick-on-the-internet attitude

C'mon folks, aim high, life's too short and the world's too small for dickery (or there's always STW - JOKE

).

Peace and love

Posted: **Fri Apr 01, 2022 11:49 am**

Dull sometimes aren't I

Posted: **Fri Apr 01, 2022 11:58 am**

It's a route. Ride it or don't ride it

Posted: **Fri Apr 01, 2022 12:00 pm**

I did say it appears to follow the same route as the Chalke Way (note the E) but I hadn't studied the maps in detail on my phone sized screen.

The Chalke Way was ridden in the 90's by the authors of the book on touring bikes with downtube shifters so I can see why you need to sanitise it to make it gravel bike friendly

The point of the Chalke Way was that it followed as closely as possible the historical route. If you're going to deviate from that, no mater how noble a cause, then it's not the historical route anymore so shouldn't you give it a new name (just forgetting to type the E doesn't count) to avoid confusion and the wrath internet keyboard warriors?

In a similar vain I'm thinking of working up a new version of the Hadrian's Wall cycle route, located slightly south of the true historical route and a touch shorter, as the original is a bit too far north to be convenient and a bit long. My route runs from Freshwater to Sandown on the Island and is a more manageable 26 miles. I'm going to call it the Adrian's Wall cycle route as it will start from the front wall of Adrian's bike shop* in Freshwater

* This is a real place as well, https://www.adriansbikeshop.com/

Posted: **Fri Apr 01, 2022 2:54 pm**

Well.. at least it wasn't called The Chalk Divide :)

Looking fwd to Adrian's Wall, sounds like my kind of route after a winter of doing what feels too close to sod all..

Posted: **Fri Apr 01, 2022 7:07 pm**

You could do the Ravers Route as well, to get you back to the start of Adrian’s Wall.

Posted: **Sat Apr 02, 2022 8:41 am**

jameso wrote: ↑Fri Apr 01, 2022 8:18 am
Wow, they take you right through the middle of Luton...
- yes, on good quality bike paths that I know well (lea valley and the Sustrans at the side of the busway), because diverting around the outside takes longer and is dull suburban riding, traffic etc. He's done the right thing. The Chiltern hills are in sight only a km away at points but it's an area that you're better off getting through on the route suggested in order to take in the trails either side.

Apologies, it wasn't my intent to bash the intent, or the route James. However, I personally wouldn't publish a route that's just a joined up mash-up of exiting long distance waymarked routes, but that's just me. Otherwise you'd already have seen Bob's Eastern Divide* from Holme to Eastbourne. Having said that, I'll stick by my surprise that they're taking you through Dunstable and Luton, especially when you can easily bypass the convoluted dross between Upper Sundon and Streatly, which would appear to be the point of that diversion.

I've written, and deleted, extensive thoughts on this three times now, as I don't want to come over as a total dick. Having said that, some of the routing does smack of inappropriate gearing (been there, got that t-shirt), or a preference to ride smoother, easier surfaces, rather than maximising off road opportunities. It's not like The Icknield Way isn't gravel bike friendly as it is, each to their own though...

jameso wrote: ↑Fri Apr 01, 2022 8:18 am You guys might be getting too cynical of good presentation I'm riding this over the summer, will report back.

Well, they've used Komoot, which is a big black mark in my book.

* I'm being fasciculus, I wouldn't call it a divide

Posted: **Sat Apr 02, 2022 9:17 am**

Boab wrote: ↑Sat Apr 02, 2022 8:41 am
jameso wrote: ↑Fri Apr 01, 2022 8:18 am
Wow, they take you right through the middle of Luton...
- yes, on good quality bike paths that I know well (lea valley and the Sustrans at the side of the busway), because diverting around the outside takes longer and is dull suburban riding, traffic etc. He's done the right thing. The Chiltern hills are in sight only a km away at points but it's an area that you're better off getting through on the route suggested in order to take in the trails either side.
Apologies, it wasn't my intent to bash the intent, or the route James. However, I personally wouldn't publish a route that's just a joined up mash-up of exiting long distance waymarked routes, but that's just me. Otherwise you'd already have seen Bob's Eastern Divide* from Holme to Eastbourne. Having said that, I'll stick by my surprise that they're taking you through Dunstable and Luton, especially when you can easily bypass the convoluted dross between Upper Sundon and Streatly, which would appear to be the point of that diversion.

I've written, and deleted, extensive thoughts on this three times now, as I don't want to come over as a total dick. Having said that, some of the routing does smack of inappropriate gearing (been there, got that t-shirt), or a preference to ride smoother, easier surfaces, rather than maximising off road opportunities. It's not like The Icknield Way isn't gravel bike friendly as it is, each to their own though...

jameso wrote: ↑Fri Apr 01, 2022 8:18 am You guys might be getting too cynical of good presentation I'm riding this over the summer, will report back.
Well, they've used Komoot, which is a big black mark in my book.

You've articulated by own thoughts perfectley there including the use of Komoot.

Posted: **Sat Apr 02, 2022 9:27 am**

woodsmith wrote: ↑Sat Apr 02, 2022 9:17 am You've articulated by own thoughts perfectley there including the use of Komoot.

STW have all their subscribers routes in Komoot and recently tweeted a link to a collection of "free gpx" for gravel routes that also happened to be komoot. So free as long as I'd already bought the maps in komoot.

Posted: **Wed Apr 06, 2022 1:26 pm**

jameso wrote: ↑Fri Apr 01, 2022 2:54 pm Looking fwd to Adrian's Wall

The Tour of Britain have beaten me to it, this years final stage is on the Isle of Wight and they've routed it past Adrian's Bike Shop

Looks a cracking route and it takes in some great climbs, the one out of Ventnor only gets a single chevron on the OS map but the sign at the top says 25%, if it's still altogether there it would be the chance for a small group to get away as it's only about 20 miles to the finish from there.

Posted: **Wed Apr 06, 2022 5:17 pm**

If anyone does the route, i live about 2 miles off Peddars and i'll buy you a pint... i'm looking to ride it in the summer southbound and train back.

Posted: **Wed Apr 06, 2022 8:01 pm**

People have been using bikes to explore the British Isles since the 1870s, so there's very little 'new under the sun'.

As long those hawking 'new' route ideas give a little nod to the generations that have come before us, I think all is well. Sometimes a refresh and a rebrand is all that's needed to revive an existing route, or create a new one. King Alfred's Way has been a wild success even though it didn't involve any new ROWs (as far as I'm aware).

More people getting out there and riding, what's not to like? And if they catch the bug by riding one or two 'ready meal routes', people will start poring over maps to devise their own.

For the chalk-lovers out there, there's a good long read on the Guardian, extracted from a recent book: https://www.theguardian.com/news/2021/f ... ite-cliffs

Posted: **Wed Apr 06, 2022 10:02 pm**

Boab wrote: ↑Sat Apr 02, 2022 8:41 am Apologies, it wasn't my intent to bash the intent, or the route James. However, I personally wouldn't publish a route that's just a joined up mash-up of exiting long distance waymarked routes, but that's just me. Otherwise you'd already have seen Bob's Eastern Divide* from Holme to Eastbourne. Having said that, I'll stick by my surprise that they're taking you through Dunstable and Luton, especially when you can easily bypass the convoluted dross between Upper Sundon and Streatly, which would appear to be the point of that diversion.

I've written, and deleted, extensive thoughts on this three times now, as I don't want to come over as a total dick. Having said that, some of the routing does smack of inappropriate gearing (been there, got that t-shirt), or a preference to ride smoother, easier surfaces, rather than maximising off road opportunities. It's not like The Icknield Way isn't gravel bike friendly as it is, each to their own though...

No need to apologise at all. Can't see how you'd come across as anything like that either. Hope my route-defensive comment didn't come across wrong. Just an opinion and like --------s we all have them :)
I suppose what I'm getting at generally and not aimed at anyone in particular here is what Stu says, ride it or don't, all good. It's easy to critique but not so easy to create and present your creativity for public criticism. Yes there's areas where I might pick a different route along the way too, but same for any route probably. Many are just happy to follow the work of others? Maybe a more experienced MTB 'packer on here isn't the rider it was aimed at.

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