Jones type bars and geometry set up

[fatbikerbill]

So you have a bike designed for standard bars and stem.

Jones type bars sweep back much further. Let's say 50mm for simplicity.

If you then change the stem as well to something 50mm longer do you have an identical geometry and set up, just with the sweep bars

I am assuming width is the same.

[stevenshand]

I buy into the school that says keep the same length stem. The idea is for your hands to be further back. That's the point of the sweep back position. I'm too lazy to look but I'm pretty sure I've read Jeff Jones explaining this is how they were designed.

[ScotRoutes]

I did have a photo with a pair of standard handlebars laid across the top of a set of Jones Loop bars showing that the hands were actually in the same place, just at a different angle. The only slight variation of this would depend on how far towards the "loop" you had the controls. I always had mine as far forward as possible, fitting a longer-than-standard grip. I know some folk do have the controls set a bit further back. In any case, I'd fit them with the existing stem and take it from there.

[The Cumbrian]

Experiment with the angle too. I've seen pics where the bars are angled anywhere from horizontal to about 25º, and the riders were comfortable with the angle they chose.

[Loki]

https://whatbars.com/ is a brilliant resource.

[Mariner]

This is my current bar Soma Riser compared to the Jones using the comparison site.
Untitled by michaelwex10, on Flickr
It only shows bars in 2D so you don't see the rise in comparison.
It is more to do with hand/wrist angle and what works for you.
One of the things that Jones stress is the saddle/bar height being the same
so you may need to change the stem to achieve that or buy the Jones Riser bar.

[ton]

i have recently gone from jones loops, to a pair of genesis alt bars. the alt bars feel a bit more natural. the jones were straining my elbow for some reason.
i use the same 90mm stem on both and the reach dont feel any differant.

[fatbikerbill]

Cheers all

As is usual I'll have to do some reading.

I have jones on one bike and always loved the position. On the full suss I've never got around to swapping so hence the geometry question.

Interesting about the seat bar height. I have no idea at the moment how they are on both bikes

[Pirahna]

I still haven't changed my opinion that Jones bars are useless on anything other than a Jones.

[ton]

I still haven't changed my opinion that Jones bars are useless on anything other than a Jones.

i have to disagree. the whole notion of jones building a bike around the bars dont make sense to me.
i have ridden jones bars on, 1 x jones plus. 3 x surly disc truckers. 1 x salsa fargo ti. 1 x salsa fargo steel. 2 x surly ecr's. and the bikes work and feel exactly the same on all the bikes. i set up the bikes all the same. same distance from saddle tip to stem center.

[Pirahna]

I still haven't changed my opinion that Jones bars are useless on anything other than a Jones.

i have to disagree. the whole notion of jones building a bike around the bars dont make sense to me.

He made the bars to match the bike.

[ton]

i very much doubt that he had a set of bars on a work bench, and thought ' right i shall now build a bike to fit these bars'.

i reckon a load of the jones etho's is plain old marketing speel.

[fatbikephil]

They are just bars with a particularly big sweep and there are a few bikes out there with TT lengths similar to Jones on which they work well. I found they induce terminal ache between the shoulder blades if they are set too low but otherwise work very well on a 'normal' bike. It's all down to preference innit

[In Reverse]

On the full suss I've never got around to swapping so hence the geometry question.

I much prefer a straighter bar on a fs - I find Jones bars make it harder to rotate my wrists quickly enough for shifting weight forwards and backwards, if that makes sense. eg switching the bike's angle for landing on the downside of a tabletop.

tbf I do have dreadful technique and probably don't get enough height.

[ledburner]

On the full suss I've never got around to swapping so hence the geometry question.

I much prefer a straighter bar on a fs - I find Jones bars make it harder to rotate my wrists quickly enough for shifting weight forwards and backwards, if that makes sense. eg switching the bike's angle for landing on the downside of a tabletop.

tbf I do have dreadful technique and probably don't get enough height.

On the full suss I've never got around to swapping so hence the geometry question.

I much prefer a straighter bar on a fs - I find Jones bars make it harder to rotate my wrists quickly enough for shifting weight forwards and backwards, if that makes sense. eg switching the bike's angle for landing on the downside of a tabletop.

tbf I do have dreadful technique and probably don't get enough height.

Are Jones bars, like American 'Mars' bars?
Also, Is this a new sport indoor mountain biking?
Do you go indoor or outdoor for your TableTops, such as dining tables picnic tables? I'm intregued.
I must admit I am having a hard time following this conversation.

[jameso]

Straight swap at first? Could try a touch longer maybe 30mm. I have a 90 or 100mm stem with my H bars and wouldn't go longer than a 60 or 70mm with a flat bar on a rigid bike.

I love Jones bars on a Jones bike and could easily get boring defending why his designs are valid and beneficial (for some not all, oc) options vs the mainstream. But I'll try not to : )
The bars are brilliant on some bikes but on anything with a long or lower front end or suspension I'm less keen. Agree with In Reverse's comments. I ride a rigid bike differently to a FS and bars might all change based on that.

As far as I'm aware the H-bars did evolve with Jeff's bike ideas, the bars came before the bike as we know it now. And they weren't all new ideas, he just saw a bike format that gave a particular riding position that worked in other areas of riding and had been overlooked by the mainstream. It's a bit specialist and it's not for everyone, like a lot of good niche things like music.

[In Reverse]

On the full suss I've never got around to swapping so hence the geometry question.

I much prefer a straighter bar on a fs - I find Jones bars make it harder to rotate my wrists quickly enough for shifting weight forwards and backwards, if that makes sense. eg switching the bike's angle for landing on the downside of a tabletop.

tbf I do have dreadful technique and probably don't get enough height.

On the full suss I've never got around to swapping so hence the geometry question.

I much prefer a straighter bar on a fs - I find Jones bars make it harder to rotate my wrists quickly enough for shifting weight forwards and backwards, if that makes sense. eg switching the bike's angle for landing on the downside of a tabletop.

tbf I do have dreadful technique and probably don't get enough height.

Are Jones bars, like American 'Mars' bars?
Also, Is this a new sport indoor mountain biking?
Do you go indoor or outdoor for your TableTops, such as dining tables picnic tables? I'm intregued.
I must admit I am having a hard time following this conversation.

This whole post is a perfect illustration of why it's rarely a good idea to go on the internet at 1am for anything other than ordering a takeaway.

[Boab]

I've pretty much sorted out my saddle set back and height on the Scandal, so now need to sort out the bars. I've currently got some Velo Orange Crazy Bars on and don't really know where they should be setup to be, other than I should be quite upright. I've currently got a 50mm stem on, only as it came off the old fat bike and I had it in the parts bin. My hands appear to be behind the steerer, just wondering if they should be inline with the steerer, or in front...?

I was considering lifting them slightly higher, although they feel pretty high already, especially when on the extensions out front. Doing so would bring them back much closer to me, so considering a slightly longer stem to compensate. Does that sound reasonable?

[jameso]

My hands appear to be behind the steerer, just wondering if they should be inline with the steerer, or in front...?

I don't think it matters as long as you feel balanced on the bike overall. MotoX bikes and old roadsters generally have the bar/grips behind the steerer, BMX are inline, road bikes are well in front. They all work?

[Lazarus]

All mine are in front* [ just], including the Jones but they have the longest stem, except the salsa spearfish which is a good 60-80 mm in front as a guess

Does this matter , no idea.

* I am in the process of servicing them all so they are all out, I had to look to know

[fatbikephil]

In theory, the further your hands are away (fore or aft) from the steering axis the more effort is required to turn the bars but a few mm either way won't matter. It's more a case of what feels right - the higher the bars the less pressure on wrists (and the more on yer butt) plus high bars make it easier to get your weight back for those steep and steppy descents.

I'd go with what you have and see what happens

[godivatrailrider]

I have Jones Loops on the Jones and On-One Geoffs on the Rooster. Love them both. Geoffs are wider. Have both with pretty short stems.
The most comfortable bars for me.
Can't go into any more technicalities than that.

[Boab]

I have just realised that I can prolly nick the stem of my son's Calibre SAW, and try that. Might raise the bars for tomorrow mornings ride, then switch stems for Wednesday morning. Then I can use whichever I think is bestest for an overnighter on Thursday/Friday, to give it a proper test.