Just wondering what people consider the ideal spoke count to be for a fully loaded bike packing wheel set. I appreciate that the answer might be different for different bikes on different terrain, just wondering if there was a general rule of thumb or not. The main reason for asking, is that straight pull hubs only seem to come in 24 spoke flavour, whereas flanged ones also feature 28 and 32 options. Given that straight pull spokes are supposed to have one less fatigue point, i.e. the lack of j-bend, does that mean a 24 spoke straight pull wheel is as strong as a 28 spoke j-bend wheel, for example...?

According to Rodger Musson of wheel building book fame, straight pull hubs offer no advantages over normal spokes.
Oh I go for 32 spokes being 100kg, don’t whatever you do buy a 36 hole rohloff and expect to find many plus sized rims

What can I easily get spares for would have as much a bearing on the decision for me as to whether it was perfect from an engineering perspective.

I've never seen a spoke fail at the J bend. I've seen them fail at the start of the nipple thread.

The advantage of straight pull is that the spoke hole at the hub can have a slot to get a bladed aero spoke in. I've seen a straight pull hub fail at this point.

You need a spoke holder to stop a spoke rotating in the hub of a straight pull when tightening it up. If you use round spokes in straight pull there is nothing to hold. I refuse to work on any of my friends wheels with straight pull hubs for these reasons.

IMO - 32 hole J bend

Off-road 28 spoke seems to be fashionable but I can't imagine it's worth the slight weight loss.

I've had straight and j-bend rear hubs fail at the flanges but never at the spoke bend.

Straight pull hubs are super easy to replace a spoke in...until you need to tension it as mentioned above, so I agree only bladed spokes for straight pull hubs.

If strength, longevity and replaceability are what you desire rather than fashion, aerozzz and weightweenie-ism, 32 hole j-bend front and back for gravel or MTB.

Dyffers wrote: ↑Mon Sep 20, 2021 3:09 pm If strength, longevity and replaceability are what you desire rather than fashion, aerozzz and weightweenie-ism, 32 hole j-bend front and back for gravel or MTB.

However, if you are buying factory built not handbuilt or self building you might find you're pushed toward less spokes; unless you're a Clydesdale I wouldn't baulk at 28 but would probably avoid 24 for off-road loaded riding with any rim carbon or alloy.

I have used 24 spoke off-road and bikepacking without issue but I am 63 kg

32 j bend on the if it is not broken why fix it.

I’m on the 32H J bend side of things. This is for wheels I build myself with alloy rims and my existing 32H hubs - SON and Rohloff (kind of limits my choice )
One thing to remember that is the higher your spoke count the less dramatic affect breaking a single spoke has on the whole wheel. Each spoke is controlling less rim.

I'm 72KG in my birthday suit and have been running around on 24 spoke DT Swiss 350 straight pull hubs since I got the bike. I've broken a couple of spokes this year, both at the nipple, and while I've covered over 17,000KM on these wheels, loaded and unloaded, on road and off, I don't know if this is "normal" lifespan or not. Just slightly concerned that as I get into doing stuff that's slightly rougher and tougher, I'd be better off with a higher spoke count. I do like the aesthetic of the straight pull hubs though...

both at the nipple,

Are your spokes black? I know many dismiss it but I've only ever broken black spokes despite silver spokes outnumbering black by some considerable margin.

32 BTW and you won't be looking at your wheels while riding so you can discount the aesthetics.

Bearbonesnorm wrote: ↑Mon Sep 20, 2021 5:11 pm

both at the nipple,

Are your spokes black? I know many dismiss it but I've only ever broken black spokes despite silver spokes outnumbering black by some considerable margin.

Yes, the spokes are black...

Bearbonesnorm wrote: ↑Mon Sep 20, 2021 5:11 pm 32 BTW and you won't be looking at your wheels while riding so you can discount the aesthetics.

But, but, but... *splutter* Think of the photos!

32H IMO

What Sean says. Maybe 36 spokes for loaded and off-road use if starting from scratch with good choice of hubs and rims, unless you're light in the bike. 32 with large or wide flange hubs work fine for me though.
Only had a few spokes fail, always at the nipple end. Makes me wary of builds that put a bend in there due to rim drilling.
I've only used wheelsets on road bikes, can't see the appeal for off road and loaded riding. Would avoid anything with spokes that can't be replaced with something from Sapim, DT etc..

36. Always 36. Accept no substitutes.

Alu rim; 32 spokes for most cases. For seriously heavy load expedition type cycling, 36.

Carbon rim; 28 spokes for all but expedition type cycling or when trying to be Super Bruni.
In such cases 32.

Back when I was not so well I had a Turbo Levo full fat ebike. The factory spec Roval wheels on that (27.5+) had 24 front and 28 rear.
That bike, with bikepacking kit and rider were likely 150kg. No grief at all. If the wheels are built well then 32 f&r are fine I’d say.