https://www.abikerace.co.uk/

Seems a teensy bit like an Audax with less planning on behalf of the organiser coupled with a price increase by several orders of magnitude.

Or perhaps I'm just being an old cynic.

Honestly don’t think I could do a race that finishes in Connahs Quay, there would be zero motivation to get there

Given that you get a T shirt (maybe two should you finish), a jersey, SPOT hire and the chance to win up to £1500, £150 entry fee doesn't seem too bad.

I do feel that it's perhaps another one of those things which isn't really aimed at 'bikepackers' as I know them but the growing ranks of gravel / adventure riders ... and if you're happy to spend over a grand on some wheels, £150 is loose change surely

Or, and bear with me on this, you could spend £45 and do the BCM to start (600km and 8,500m vert) and then just go for a ride afterwards.... and still be £100 better off :)

EDIT: just to add, the copy that is starting to be attached to these "events" is really starting to irritate me. Don't talk down to me if you want me to do your event. Don't imply that I'm soft and can't finish your event. Don't make it that I'm less of a human for not entertaining your challenge. I get it , you think you're vaguely exciting. I am perfectly ok with my life and don't need you to validate me. Seriously though, get someone who can write to flesh out your event website.

Looks like a TCR type, join the dots without much sleep, can be done on road type thing?

The waypoints are what make this route, you'll know the checkpoints but won't have a clue where you have to go in-between until the waypoint locations are revealed the day before the event.

To be given checkpoints last minute would be me swearing at a Garmin on a regular basis but it's good that a smart navigator could have a big advantage. Favours tech on the bike though which is a shame for this luddite : ) I'd prefer time to plan my route in advance, TCR style. Main route, conditions options, notes etc all planned in advance to reward experience as well as fitness - TCR format appeals more in that respect.

Still, for me the classic set route races have a lot more appeal and interest than the TCR approach where the faster road options are usually less pleasant roads (though I'm sure the TCR put a lot of time and smart into checkpoint placement and roads into them to bias the routes well). I suppose I'm not that interested in a rider's navigation ability now it's all down to GPS and how good your tech is, more interested in how a set routes simplifies racing to the ability and strategy of the rider. If I want to see great navigation I can follow tourers like Ryan Wilson, you probably find the best routes when there's no time pressure.

Checkpoint/waypoint placement is a real art - you have to look at orienteering for the best examples though Mountain Marathons and Trailquests come close. But both those are area limited to some extent so a bit more controllable than the TCR or similar. They also tend to rely on paper maps rather than electronics. In fact GPS devices with their limited screen size puts you at a disadvantage for wider strategy - if two waypoints are 30km apart you can't get both on screen without sacrificing detail and if you zoom in then you get the detail but not the overall picture.

I did the LAMM (Lowe Alpine Mountain Marathon) one year up around Ben More Assynt. There were some really subtle route choices that demonstrated the art quite well. There were also some that only made sense when you were on the ground and could see the options such as a shelf with fast running on short grass that couldn't be ascertained from the contours. We went past that one in the mirk to follow the south ridge up to BMA. I only saw another years later when I went up Conival on a clear day!

johnnystorm wrote: ↑Sun Aug 22, 2021 9:09 am https://www.abikerace.co.uk/

Seems a teensy bit like an Audax with less planning on behalf of the organiser coupled with a price increase by several orders of magnitude.

Or perhaps I'm just being an old cynic.

I guess the big difference is that an Audax purposely tries to avoid any racing, whereas this is being marketed as a race with prize money. Although I am not sure where it stands legally as many other similar events can not be officially classed as races.

jameso wrote: ↑Sun Aug 22, 2021 11:08 am

The waypoints are what make this route, you'll know the checkpoints but won't have a clue where you have to go in-between until the waypoint locations are revealed the day before the event.

To be given checkpoints last minute would be me swearing at a Garmin on a regular basis but it's good that a smart navigator could have a big advantage. Favours tech on the bike though which is a shame for this luddite : ) I'd prefer time to plan my route in advance, TCR style. Main route, conditions options, notes etc all planned in advance to reward experience as well as fitness - TCR format appeals more in that respect.

Still, for me the classic set route races have a lot more appeal and interest than the TCR approach where the faster road options are usually less pleasant roads (though I'm sure the TCR put a lot of time and smart into checkpoint placement and roads into them to bias the routes well). I suppose I'm not that interested in a rider's navigation ability now it's all down to GPS and how good your tech is, more interested in how a set routes simplifies racing to the ability and strategy of the rider. If I want to see great navigation I can follow tourers like Ryan Wilson, you probably find the best routes when there's no time pressure.

Very much agree with you on this. If you look at Start to CP1, near Swansea, that is just the A48 all the way. No joy, no reward. If the checkpoint had been at the top of one of the S.Wales peaks like Bwlch or Maerdy mountains that would have made route choice more interesting, the riding far better and more enjoyable.
CP2, Pembroke again lots of busy dual carriageway and overall I think every single road will be an A road.

Given that there is no set route between CP, you could no doubt devise an interesting route between them. Trouble is, by adding time restraints, calling it a race and offering prize money, I'm sure the majority will (as previously said) head straight up the nearest busy A road. Be nice if there was a prize awarded to the route containing the most non-tarmac or something similar.

The waypoints are going to determine route choices at the end of the day (and seemingly at the last minute) and unfortunately we won't be party to them unless we enter.
Although not mentioned in the rules, I guess bridleways and byways are out of bounds if it is a race.

From what I can see, it looks like the organisers are trying to be laid-back and chilled but at the same time charging money and offering prizes; a difficult combination to achieve.

I guess bridleways and byways are out of bounds if it is a race.

Now, that really is a big can of worms - I'm thinking that they're thinking that because there's no route set, then the organisers can't receive a smacked wrist should the individual decide to use BW etc. In theory, should an individual rider choose a BW in order to link A to B, then they're not actually racing anyone along it. However, it appears they are being timed albeit from a distance, which in the eyes of the law pretty much amounts to the same thing. The fact that there's prizes for the top 3 means that no amount of arguing will convince the powers that it isn't a race .... using the word 'race' all over your website will no doubt also have the same effect.

Yet ... the Racing Collective (clue's in the name) run events which do use BW to a large degree, are races and no one seems to give a toss.

I guess bridleways and byways are out of bounds if it is a race.

Although I am not sure where it stands legally as many other similar events can not be officially classed as races.

They'll 'get around' that, or claim to, by not having a prescribed route - just like MTBO

GregMay wrote: ↑Sun Aug 22, 2021 10:09 am Or, and bear with me on this, you could spend £45 and do the BCM to start (600km and 8,500m vert) and then just go for a ride afterwards.... and still be £100 better off :)

EDIT: just to add, the copy that is starting to be attached to these "events" is really starting to irritate me. Don't talk down to me if you want me to do your event. Don't imply that I'm soft and can't finish your event. Don't make it that I'm less of a human for not entertaining your challenge. I get it , you think you're vaguely exciting. I am perfectly ok with my life and don't need you to validate me. Seriously though, get someone who can write to flesh out your event website.

Exactly the event I had in mind. Entry fee including B&B and again, as long as you hit the checkpoints you can choose your own route.

And you can avoid the major roads if you want to. BCM is such an excellent experience. Should be on any riders to-do list.

Yet ... the Racing Collective (clue's in the name) run events which do use BW to a large degree, are races and no one seems to give a toss.

Could be that the Racing Collective being not-for-profit keeps things below the radar? Low numbers and in reality no different than half a dozen or so riders using Strava along that bridleway that day.

GregMay wrote: ↑Sun Aug 22, 2021 5:10 pm And you can avoid the major roads if you want to. BCM is such an excellent experience. Should be on any riders to-do list.

What's the BCM??

htrider wrote: ↑Sun Aug 22, 2021 9:08 pm

GregMay wrote: ↑Sun Aug 22, 2021 5:10 pm And you can avoid the major roads if you want to. BCM is such an excellent experience. Should be on any riders to-do list.

What's the BCM??

The Bryan Chapman Memorial Audax.

Chepstow to Menai Bridge and back again in 40 hours max.

£45 to enter including food at Dollgellau and Menai and a bunk in Dollellau on the way back.

johnnystorm wrote: ↑Sun Aug 22, 2021 9:30 pm The Bryan Chapman Memorial Audax.

Chepstow to Menai Bridge and back again in 40 hours max.

£45 to enter including food at Dollgellau and Menai and a bunk in Dollellau on the way back.

Cheers - that looks like a worthy thing to do! 600k in 40 hrs though....

Low numbers and in reality no different than half a dozen or so riders using Strava along that bridleway that day.

Direct experience says, none of that would matter at all if the powers decided to take a closer look.

Bearbonesnorm wrote: ↑Mon Aug 23, 2021 7:11 am

Low numbers and in reality no different than half a dozen or so riders using Strava along that bridleway that day.

Direct experience says, none of that would matter at all if the powers decided to take a closer look.

No, I expect not. Rules is rules.

Aye, the law doesn't make exceptions and those who wield it live in a land of black and white with no room for discretion. I had a right time with 'them' after the BB200 in 2014 and since, I've wondered why it is that people would bend the rules and then openly announce it by referring to an event as a race.

We all think we're below the radar but that year I learnt that the powers aren't afraid to crouch down and look under there

If the authorities or powers that be want to, then we are pretty easy to find and scrutinise.

I was chatting to a recently retired mployee of Natural Resources Wales last week. He told me they actively use Strava to see where people are riding on their land to see what mtb trails are being built. Maybe another case for leaving no trace....

The Racing Collective events ive done have had about 25 participants and never felt like a race. Ii appreciate that there were 10 timed segments over 2 days, but it never felt like anyone was racing them to me. Though from my position at the back of the field my view of the front runners may have been obscured!

Ian

The Racing Collective events ive done have had about 25 participants and never felt like a race. Ii appreciate that there were 10 timed segments over 2 days, but it never felt like anyone was racing them to me. Though from my position at the back of the field my view of the front runners may have been obscured!

I imagine that's all true but simply using the word 'race' invites unwelcome scrutiny. Also worth considering the social media circus that surrounds these things, as they can often appear much bigger and more defined to the onlooker.

Strava public use on cheeky trails is daft, just invitation to get something closed off. Happened locally on some FC land. Strava and similar tools have no way to prevent trail use being logged in an area - appreciate that's probably impossible to manage with permissions etc but it would be useful if they simply blocked off areas where bikes don't have assumed rights so they didn't appear in online race leaderboards or KOM tables. Needs of strava use volume come first.