I’ve certainly talked with the wife about selling the house and talking the money to buy a campervan to tour around Europe for a year or two but couldn’t take my daughter away from her Grandparents for that long, would feel mean on both sets of them.

Did have a friend who had a full time job but lived in his van for one summer, saved a lot of money in rent and the police didn’t seem bothered. He hit lucky with the weather that year. At the end of the summer, him and his misses drive all over Europe before moving to Canada (partner was Canadian so they hammered Europe as a swan song before her visa ran out). He’s now married and owns a house over there.

Same guy also house shared for 18 months working on minimum wage and saved several grand to enable him to take a year out and cycle tour down to take and back and also taking in India and Burma. Once he adopted his life style, he didn’t miss out on much (still went to the pub and had take aways etc and also built up a Surly with Rohloff etc)

Interesting thread.

Personally, not working at all isn't too appealing. I think that making a few quid doing a job which is reasonably enjoyable is a good thing.
Only a very lucky few find a job they really love doing, but as long as you don't dread the thought of going to work then I reckon that's manageable.

Personally, I fairly enjoy my work. I work for myself so no issues with slogging away to make someone else rich.
There's a bit of variety, challenging enough without being too hard, customers are happy to have me and there is a tangible achievement to be seen at the end of the day.

Certain times of the year are mega busy for me, and I get pretty sick of work despite the direct relationship between hours worked and cash in the bank.
I book less work in come Easter though, aiming for a three day max week during the sunnier months. I find that work becomes genuinely enjoyable then. I can still earn decent money, but it doesn't feel like work is consuming all my physical and mental energy.

Long story short, I reckon aiming for a restricted working week / year in a non drudgery type job is as appealing as doing nowt and scrimping every last penny.
Being really restricted with money and having real worries about fixing a broken boiler etc is a poor show state of affairs.

FYI Shi'ite = poor show on the swear filter

Bedmaker wrote: ↑Sun Jan 31, 2021 2:25 pm Interesting thread.

Personally, not working at all isn't too appealing. I think that making a few quid doing a job which is reasonably enjoyable is a good thing.
Only a very lucky few find a job they really love doing, but as long as you don't dread the thought of going to work then I reckon that's manageable.

Personally, I fairly enjoy my work. I work for myself so no issues with slogging away to make someone else rich.
There's a bit of variety, challenging enough without being too hard, customers are happy to have me and there is a tangible achievement to be seen at the end of the day.

Certain times of the year are mega busy for me, and I get pretty sick of work despite the direct relationship between hours worked and cash in the bank.
I book less work in come Easter though, aiming for a three day max week during the sunnier months. I find that work becomes genuinely enjoyable then. I can still earn decent money, but it doesn't feel like work is consuming all my physical and mental energy.

Long story short, I reckon aiming for a restricted working week / year in a non drudgery type job is as appealing as doing nowt and scrimping every last penny.
Being really restricted with money and having real worries about fixing a broken boiler etc is a poor show state of affairs.

Nice one, I was going to put in my two pence worth at some stage today, but you've just said pretty much exactly what I was thinking, so I'll spare you all

Nah, go on V, don't hold back .

Verena wrote: ↑Sun Jan 31, 2021 10:45 am Wow, this is getting deeper by the minute...

Yeah, time for a moment of frivolity then before diving back in.

Sod the frugality after all. Do a George Best instead: "I spent a lot of money on booze, birds and fast cars. The rest I just squandered".

RIP wrote: ↑Sun Jan 31, 2021 7:30 pm "I spent a lot of money on booze, birds and fast cars. The rest I just squandered".

Good advice

Yeah and one doesn't have to be regulated to offer that sort of advice either .

I wonder if he indulged in all three at the same time? Quite probably!

ton wrote: ↑Fri Jan 29, 2021 12:33 pm thing is tho, we have been speaking to a IFA since the wife retired in early November.
and the plan she has given us will work for us how we want it to. it is very low risk, if there is such a thing.
minimal notice is needed to get to the funds if we need it, and the return is ok if we dont go mad with the lump.

but now as i have said, we are unsure. as i said, when you aint had nowt, the thought of handing what you get, over is a very alien thing to do.
or am i just being stupid.

Reg and I discussed this during our ride today.

Several years ago I attended the Kepner-Tregoe "Problem Solving and Decision Making" course (PSDM). It takes a structured, evidence-based, approach.

Basically:
1) Appraise the situation (state concerns, prioritise them, plan next steps, state who else needs to be involved).

2) Clearly state the problem in one sentence (e.g. Should I retire?). Identify possible causes of the problem (e.g. "I don't know much about this subject"). Which of the possible causes has the fewest assumptions? Try to verify the assumptions you've used.

3) Ask yourself "What is the purpose of this decision?" State the short & long term objectives (e.g. more fun; security). State the restrictions and the maximum and minimum limits (e.g. expect to live another 40 years; minimum annual expenditure of £££ + inflation). State which are "needs" (which may be a range, e.g need a house with at least 2 bedrooms, but maximum of 4) and which are "wants". Prioritise the "wants" (1-10).
Evaluate which options fulfill the "needs" (facts only), discard the rest.
Ask which remaining options satisfy each "want".
Identify potential threats for the best-performing option. Assess the threat as high, medium, low and how serious the consequence would be (e.g "have to live on porridge"; or "no foreign ski holidays").

4) Make decision: pick the option that best meets your criteria with acceptable risks.

If you still can't make a decision at this stage it suggests there's a crucial piece of information missing. Work out what that is, find the answer, then see how that affects your options, "needs" and "wants" evaluation.

Be objective: you may find the best answer is one that initially didn't seem "right"; or the option you initially preferred has unexpected pitfalls.

Above all: USE EVIDENCE!

Useful K-T blogs are here:
https://www.kepner-tregoe.com/blog/alig ... ions-risk/

https://www.kepner-tregoe.com/blog/the- ... on-making/

The K-T website states it's techniques were used to bring Apollo 13 back from space.
They come easier and quicker with practice. I've found I ask the "who-what-when-where-how" questions early-on. It's useful for work and personal circumstances.

PM me if you've questions.
Other problem-solving techniques are available.

MuddyPete wrote: ↑ Reg and I discussed this during our ride today.

I'd like to make it quite clear at this point that we spent the other 99% of our ride talking complete and utter bollocks. Don't want you giving me a bad rep Pete .

PS. Awooga! Misplaced Apostrophe Alert!! (before B beats me to it)

RIP wrote: ↑Sun Jan 31, 2021 8:26 pm Yeah and one doesn't have to be regulated to offer that sort of advice either

That advice comes best from someone who's completely unregulated .

"If a man doesn't keep pace with his companions, perhaps it is because he hears a different drummer. Let him step to the music which he hears, however measured of far away." H. D. Thoreau

Chew wrote: ↑Fri Jan 29, 2021 5:41 pm

Mythste wrote: ↑Fri Jan 29, 2021 5:19 pmI
As they say: Youthfulness is wasted on the Young

My grandfather phrase too, preceded by ' I can't abide whinging old codger moaning about getting old but I tell what youthfulness... .'
He, also said 'If I don't feel a new pain every day, there's something wrong with me.'
He lived to 91, no a bad innings...
I unique sense of humour...

MuddyPete wrote: ↑Sun Jan 31, 2021 9:29 pm

RIP wrote: ↑Sun Jan 31, 2021 8:26 pm Yeah and one doesn't have to be regulated to offer that sort of advice either

That advice comes best from someone who's completely unregulated .

Prunes are very effective f-for regulation.... And ablutions. No Sh!t, not quite.
I've found the level of the gutter, let's try and climb up to it...

Wifey and I are good to go as soon as the house is sold. We're both 57, we've been together since we were 17 and have no children. We got out first mortgage at 19 and have paid as much as we could afford into pensions and property ever since. We've had reasonable jobs but it's not been plain sailing. I originally trained as a toolmaker but that went tits up when Thatcher took over. A wet winters day working as a cycle courier in London I remember sitting in Cannon St Station looking at job ads to see what paid decent money, two years later I started my first IT job.

I managed to get a decent redundancy payout in 2017 when the company I worked for was taken over. Since then I've been trying to talk wifey into retiring, she managed to engineer a redundancy package and finished in December. I've not been idle, I had a garden maintenance business that went tits up last March and I've been delivering shopping for Tesco since then.

We always said that when we'd finished with London we'd move away, but neither of has any idea where. The house on on the market, I'm heavily invested in a VW Crafter that we'll live in and travel for a while until we decide where to live.

Chew early in the thread accurately reflected my opinion about having a lot of time and making no decisions!

I left school at 17 and joined the railway and its final salary pension (10.5% of pensionable pay) which rose to about 13% by the time I retired / made redundant when I was 51. My outgoings reduced drastically a couple of years earlier when my mortgage was paid off and my daughter finished university and I saved the extra. (I was married and divorced by the age of 32). From my mid 30's I was working and traveling long hours and realised I could get out with a pension from the age of 50 but i needed to plan for it. My partner and I did buy a property to rent out when i was 40 which we paid off in 10 years so a bit of extra income. (My partner lives and rents in central London and was worried about what to do when she retired so wanted to invest in property, I live in the East Midlands).

I had decided to quit on April 1st 2010 (to do with a bonus) and six weeks before was told my job was going and would I have to relocate to London or Swindon or take the money:-). I was unsure if the pension would be sufficient but the lump sum helped and in truth all has worked out fine.

Debt, as others have said, is the main thing. I don't buy a lot day to day, no fancy phone or tv packages and my last couple of vehicles I have kept for 10 years. Even saving money as going nowhere, buying coffee and cake mid-ride etc.

Great thread, so many interesting stories. Somebody mentioned the 'Reset' book earlier; thanks, I now have this on order.

52, married 25yr, kids are nearing independence (I hope!). A nice chunk of equity, but still a sizeable mortgage.

I dearly want to move up to the N of Scotland (from Sussex) ... I have a sturdy financial plan based on this and the inlaws are up there, but the other half does not want to, citing weather and friends. So, like a few others here, will battle on a few more years living to work, whilst working out a way out.

To add balance to this argument, I've had tasters of retirement in six months of furlough, then again in this knockout tiredness having no energy. Both are a hard pass.

Retirement just isn't for me. Purpose and giving time value by limiting it are massive bonuses of work for me. I value my work outside of my job at a similar rate, for example 1 hour that I find unpleasant or would rather not do is worth ~ £12. This could be scouring the net weekly for a slightly better deal, not worth my rate, or the stressfull chaos of making a cake compared to supporting local bakers ect. I appreciate this is a huge privilege to be able to make these choices and am quite active in practicing gratitude. Fantastic quality of life return for invested energy in gratitude.

My attitude is that work is more than in the office, I get a better return on my time and effort coding at a desk than anything else. Equally, cars are not worth my time/effort to earn the money as are plenty of other status symbols. Wish I could opt out of pensions as I just do not want that lifestyle and it's a significant wage drain at roughly 10%.

Wish I could opt out of pensions

you can

https://www.gov.uk/workplace-pensions/i ... ion-scheme

Lazarus wrote: ↑Tue Feb 02, 2021 2:03 pm

Wish I could opt out of pensions

you can

https://www.gov.uk/workplace-pensions/i ... ion-scheme

Nice one! Ta

DickieH wrote: ↑Tue Feb 02, 2021 1:21 pm Great thread, so many interesting stories. Somebody mentioned the 'Reset' book earlier; thanks, I now have this on order.

Ah, that was me, hope it is useful.

Lots of great stuff on this thread, great to see so many perspectives, thoughts and ideas.

The first lockdown hit shortly after we'd moved into a new house, and my partner was changing jobs.

I have to admit to being a bit of a financial worrier, I was convinced my partner's job offer would fall through, plus my own job was looking a bit wobbly, so during the first lockdown I did a lot of reading on financial planning, queue me obsessing over a spreadsheet

Whilst we've both taken a bit of a hit financially through the pandemic, things could have been much worse for us, and in turn obsessing over a spreadsheet has lead to some really interesting conversations about what the future holds.

For me it's less about retiring, its mainly the financial independence bit I'm interested in. I enjoy the work I do, but I want more flexibility in the businesses I choose to work with and when and how often I choose to work rather than having to take any work that comes up to keep my head above water.

Plus it would be nice not to have to try and squeeeze in bikepacking trips in between 5 weeks of holiday - after all thats a great bikepacking there in its own right ;-)

mikehowarth wrote: ↑Tue Feb 02, 2021 3:04 pmFor me it's less about retiring, its mainly the financial independence bit I'm interested in.

Think this sums it up for me.

I see it as a balance between having the cash to do the things you want, but also the time to do those things.

Being at either end of that scale isn't much fun.

Chew wrote: ↑Tue Feb 02, 2021 3:23 pm

mikehowarth wrote: ↑Tue Feb 02, 2021 3:04 pmFor me it's less about retiring, its mainly the financial independence bit I'm interested in.

Think this sums it up for me.

I see it as a balance between having the cash to do the things you want, but also the time to do those things.

Being at either end of that scale isn't much fun.

Couldn't agree more, the most challenging part of any of this is figuring out what a lifestyle without a full time job might look like and how much is enough to sustain that lifestyle.

Personally I'm willing to take a significant reduction in what I currently earn to have more time, after all by going to work that's what we are all effectively trading.

When we plugged all our numbers into a spreadsheet a comfortable lifestyle for us is actually not that big a number, we don't have kids, we spend a lot of time outdoors and we do a lot of our own cooking so its a reasonably achievable numbers with some consistent saving over the next few years.

Another dimension to this whole discussion is what the future of work looks like, obviously, remote working has been accelerated in the pandemic and this is most likely something that is going to continue which may open up more opportunity for people to further reduce living costs by switching to cheaper areas or countries.

just a bit of a update.

i have given my notice at work, and finish on 14th may, 3 days before my 55th birthday.
so fingers crossed..................

vaguely exciting news ton!

But wait...you have more than one birthday....are you the Queen?