I'm happily stuck in a world of 9 and 10 speed and can see no personal benefit to be gained by me chasing numbers ... if I'm slow, then that has absolutely nothing to do with the number of cogs on my cassette, trust me. However, I see Campag have a 13 speed drivetrain are they the first?

Rohloff users arriving in 5, 4, 3, 2...

They’ve got the first production ready 13 speed derailleur but rotor did some wacky prototype hydraulic shifting thingy in 2019

Shimano patented a 14 speed cassette/mech 20 years ago. They just never got around to making one to sell.

PaulB2 wrote: ↑Mon Jan 04, 2021 10:14 am They’ve got the first production ready 13 speed derailleur but rotor did some wacky prototype hydraulic shifting thingy in 2019

Rotor have been selling the hydraulic 1x13 system for a while, it's not cheap. It also doesn't say, gravel, anywhere in the bumf, unlike the Campag one.

It also doesn't say, gravel, anywhere in the bumf,

I'm surprised they sell any

rohloff users arriving in 5, 4, 3, 2...

waiting patiently.

ton wrote: ↑Mon Jan 04, 2021 10:42 am

rohloff users arriving in 5, 4, 3, 2...

waiting patiently.

ScotRoutes wrote: ↑Mon Jan 04, 2021 10:17 am Shimano patented a 14 speed cassette/mech 20 years ago. They just never got around to making one to sell.

What?!! When there's all those sales of 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12 and 13 speed systems to sell. Where's your rip off, err entrepreneurial spirit man?

I think Campag have been the 'first' of the mainstream manus to release a few one more sprocket set ups. Certainly 8 and 9 speeds I seem to recall, mebbes 11 as well. Remember when we only needed 6?

yes just like I remember when we did not need suspension, disc brakes, etc

Some things are actual improvements some things are not

Not sure what the point is of more gears i have a couple of 10 speed set ups and a couple of 11
I am not sure i can really tell any difference between them [ though I am sure i could if i was counting ] as the range is the same

Gravel bikes would be better if we had a double option for bikepacking rather than 1 more step in the gears we allready have

YMMV

regardless of what you think of the amount of cogs, it's an absolutely luscious bit of kit in the flesh. Honestly, as with much of the campag gear, they have people by the heart not the head.

As people have said, Rotor have a 13-speed but its not really mainstream.

Campagnolo Ekar really impressed me. Not just the range, which is good but the ergonomics.
It is lacking smaller chainrings though, so for big trips, loaded bikepacking, etc it might be a little too much.

It was one of the best bits of kit that I tested last year though and as someone who generally doesn't like Campag because I find the lever positions awkward the positioning was really nice.

Campag were pretty keen to have the test bike bag with them before Jan 1st, which was a shame
Beats GRX for range. Beats SRAM on all aspects. Can't match either on price, both fitted OE or aftermarket.

A lot of the "more gears" argument, particularly in relation to 1x setups, is about range but it's one thing that personally I don't really need. Even on a ten speed 11-42 it's rare that I'll use either extreme. Probably better to have an even ratio spacing within the range.

Lazarus wrote: ↑Mon Jan 04, 2021 1:26 pm Gravel bikes would be better if we had a double option for bikepacking rather than 1 more step in the gears we allready have

YMMV

Well, quite. 2x systems are available, it just seems that fashion over-rides practically.

ton wrote: ↑Mon Jan 04, 2021 10:42 am

rohloff users arriving in 5, 4, 3, 2...

waiting patiently.

Go on then

I've be ahead of the game for year

I've be[en] ahead of the game for year

Metaphorically but not physically
















Sorry, couldn't resist

13. Exactly the amount of f***s I couldn't give about gears any more. SS or 10, that's what I have until I wear the stack of cassettes out.

ton wrote: ↑Mon Jan 04, 2021 10:42 am

rohloff users arriving in 5, 4, 3, 2...

waiting patiently.

Pinion not the yet.
but Kindernay claim to be an all hydraulic shifting, swap wheel over on hubs interesting..
.
But my Rohloff was 28 speed...for the last 9 years...

Bearbonesnorm wrote: ↑Mon Jan 04, 2021 10:09 am I'm happily stuck in a world of 9 and 10 speed and can see no personal benefit to be gained by me chasing numbers ... if I'm slow, then that has absolutely nothing to do with the number of cogs on my cassette, trust me. However, I see Campag have a 13 speed drivetrain are they the first?

I think that you’re in a fairly ideal situation. Open the back door and hit some great riding without much road work needed. I’d love more gears, for many years I ran a rohloff, 14 ratios and a 526% range are ideal. I’m running SRAM AXS Eagle in dropbars, superb shifting, 500% range and off-road most of the time more range than I need, occasionally I spin out on a smooth fire road descent but I’d be happy enough to coast.
On the road I’d like a little more gear range but I find the gaps on the 12 speed are sometimes too wide, so much so that if I was putting together a gravel bike I’d be looking at a wide range 2X setup.

The 12 speed stuff is very reliable, in fact the Eagle chains have better life than the 11 speed stuff. The only disadvantage I’ve found is 12 speed is very fussy about setup, B-gap, indexing and hanger alignment, I expect 13 speed even more so.

Lazarus wrote: ↑Mon Jan 04, 2021 1:26 pm Not sure what the point is of more gears i have a couple of 10 speed set ups and a couple of 11
.
.
.
Gravel bikes would be better if we had a double option for bikepacking rather than 1 more step in the gears we allready have

I think you just answered your own question - more gears = smaller steps.
Not everybody wants/needs this, though

belugabob wrote: ↑Fri Jan 08, 2021 12:59 pm

Lazarus wrote: ↑Mon Jan 04, 2021 1:26 pm Not sure what the point is of more gears i have a couple of 10 speed set ups and a couple of 11
.
.
.
Gravel bikes would be better if we had a double option for bikepacking rather than 1 more step in the gears we allready have

I think you just answered your own question - more gears = smaller steps.
Not everybody wants/needs this, though

Exactly! Both SRAM AXS and GRX both missed the mark in respect to range; especially in the low end.
I’d be interested to hear how clutch equipped mechs negate the odd chain drop we used to get.