Sleeping bags!

Have a mountain hardware phantom 32 and it’s perfect from April onwards. Temp ratings are 3c,-2, -18c (and weighs 660g). I’m a cold sleeper, so looking at a winter option in the cheap(ish) side

My winter bag for the UK is a TNF snowshoe, weighs 1600g and temp rating of -9, -16 and -18c. The bulk puts me off carrying it but it is toasty.

What is the best method to get my Phantom bag to a more winter friendly rating? Adding a quilt seems like an option but really I’m looking at needing to add at least 8c to my current bag* or would a new bag be better? The cloud cover appeals but would this add as much warmth as I want?

The cheaper the option the better as I don’t used it often in the winter, or just stick with the bags I have.



*sleeping mat is already sorted to required temps and I already use my down coat to add warmth

silk liner. or fleece linner.

Close friend?

I used my Phantom 32 with a Cumulus 250 quilt last winter. It's as warm as my heavier/warm bag but more compact and easier to pack. The only downside is that it becomes a bit bulky to fit in my bivvy bag and still have space for lofting. Fine in a tent though.

Not overly cheap but these folk will make you an Apex over-quilt.
https://valleyandpeak.co.uk/brands/vall ... o-measure/

I use my cumulus 150 quilt to turn my ultralight 350 into something that will go down to about -2 comfortably. I have the quilt on first and the bag unzipped around it. These two give me a range of options depending on temps. When its going to be below -2 I tend to go with my winter bag.

Buy a down jacket and down trousers. They can be worn out of the bag in the evening, and then in the bag for an added warming factor.
2 birds, one feathery stone.

Putting the whole lot into a bivvy bag helps too. It feels a bit strange doing this inside a tent but it makes a massive difference.

+1 for down trousers (or trial the concept with cheap ski sallopettes) & using a bivi-bag-in-a-tent option.

Cheers everyone, thanks for the ideas

Any tried the MHW ghost whisperer trousers and if so, any rough ideas of how much warmth they can add?

I've often found that wearing trousers / jackets doesn't add quite as much warmth as I'd hoped. I've always assumed it's partly the fact that I'm crushing at least 50% of the insulation. I reckon 250g of down would produce better results elsewhere.

My experience is similar to Bridget and Stu's.

"Lightweight" bivi's like the Ti Goat Kestrel (though it's a bit small so lofting can be restricted - bad) and Borah Gear (gynormus) can add surprising warmth given, in themselves, they are not what you might think of as "insulated". Plus they are a relatively light and compact option to try and the gear itself can double-duty in other situations.

I find wearing a lot of extra stuff uncomfortable, to the point where it makes sleeping harder (ish - cry me a river ) and, given I can be toasty in a jacket when worn "normally" they don't seem to add as much when worn and slept in. It's a very subjective and personal opinion. I thought it was just me being weird until I saw it mentioned on here.

I thought it was just me being weird until I saw it mentioned on here.

I get better results if I take my jacket inside my quilt / sleeping bag and use it as an additional layer (like a blanket) over me.

Tried it after I saw it mentioned. Seemed to work. Some challenges to keep it in place.

I think the bivy bag just stops draughts from moving warm air away from you.

Personally I just combine quilt and sleeping bag in the same way Phil does. Worth reading this piece from Enlightened Equipment about layering - https://support.enlightenedequipment.co ... t-Layering unfortunately the temperatures are marked up in stupid. Ultimately it's about loft - you just need more of it for lower temps. Whichever you use as the outer has to be big enough not to squash the inner when you are in it. My quilt and bag are both rated to around 5C but together they are good to -5/6C which does most of the UK for winter.

As for bulk - unfortunately true winter kit is just that. Better quality and fill power down will pack better but then you are talking more money.

Plenty of sound advice on here so far.

I'd throw in the Sea to Summit Reactor Liner as another option worth considering.

As Bob points out, the main thing is ensuring the bag is lofting properly, sticking on more clothes is often counterintuitive.

Andy Kirkpartrick wrote a great article years ago, about layering similar to the one linked above.

Just remembered - some time ago I made a small Apex blanket to use as an additional layer over my torso / shoulders inside my quilt. I recall I used Argon for the shell. It measures 90cm x 70cm and weighs 113g.

mikehowarth wrote: ↑Mon Nov 30, 2020 12:15 pm
As Bob points out, the main thing is ensuring the bag is lofting properly, sticking on more clothes is often counterintuitive.

Yep. And that's before we start on Dew Point management (partially covered in the linked item) .

Simon, what's your sewing like?

You could make your own Apex overquilt (subtly combining both Stu's and Colin's last posts here ), the EE article I linked to mentions using synthetic as the outer layer to help deal with any dew point condensation problems. You'd need about 2 linear metres for a quilt (the material is 1500mm wide which is enough for the "wide" versions of quilts) - extremtextil.de have varying weights in stock - https://www.extremtextil.de/en/fabrics/ ... ation.html and ripstopbytheroll.com have patterns and projects/instructions you can follow. You'd likely get all the materials for £50-60

Dew point management - I hadn't a clue about that until talking to a mate who did an unsupported walk/flounder to the N Pole many years ago*. Their equipment manufacturer got it wrong and for a while they would wake up stuck in frozen rigid bags, then have to spend time bashing ice off layers of their sleep system, but ending up with lots of moisture in there anyway.

*Still don't really understand it totally TBH

Some great info, cheers everyone

My sewing skills Bob are sub standard and that’s being kind to myself

Food for thought