In fact this forum is part of the industry whether it likes it or not, and you're sort of a "B2" asking for a "course" albeit an informal one perhaps.

Ooh no Reg, you've got me all confused on a Friday now ... I don't know if we're part of the problem, a part of the solution or some kind of hybrid?

Bearbonesnorm wrote: ↑Fri Oct 02, 2020 2:50 pm I don't know if we're part of the problem, a part of the solution or some kind of hybrid?

All of the aforementioned

I take back what I said about Reg's ABC modelling.

jameso wrote: ↑Fri Oct 02, 2020 3:08 pm I take back what I said about Reg's ABC modelling.

Hah. I'm just the blue-skies helicopter-view man. It needs fleshing out, leveraging and cascading by the experts, focus groups, marketing people etc etc.

I wouldn’t mind riding solo between campsites...it’s the wild camping that I’d probably struggle with solo.

Really need to get along to the WRT was going to last year but my partner got seriously ill, then this year....

it’s the wild camping that I’d probably struggle with solo.

Is it the thought of getting moved on or Werewolves?

Bearbonesnorm wrote: ↑Fri Oct 02, 2020 4:05 pm

it’s the wild camping that I’d probably struggle with solo.

Is it the thought of getting moved on or Werewolves?

From conversations I've had with quite a number of people (several of whom are female) who are fascinated by my pastime, they like the idea of travelling off-road into more remote countryside carrying all their kit on their bike for a few days but without the perceived discomfort of (real) wild camping. They wonder about bike security when they pop into a shop, cafe, pub, wherever; they wonder about taking a poo in the wild; they do wonder about personal security at night. Their first forays into 'bikepacking' would indeed be more likely if they knew they had a more comfortable base each night. Whether the purist would consider that 'bikepacking' is perhaps part of the issue as to why some people don't do it.

It's possibly a case of the nomenclature getting in the way of the activity?

who are fascinated by my pastime

Yeah but what do they think about you bikepacking?

Bearbonesnorm wrote: ↑Fri Oct 02, 2020 4:26 pm

who are fascinated by my pastime

Yeah but what do they think about you bikepacking?

Damn. Wrong forum....

Bearbonesnorm wrote: ↑Fri Oct 02, 2020 4:05 pm

it’s the wild camping that I’d probably struggle with solo.

Is it the thought of getting moved on or Werewolves?

Werewolves of course No it’s just the thought of getting moved on and whilst pooing in a hole.

The more I think about bikepacking in relation to other activities, it really misses out that grassroots community. Well, it is almost all amateur which is pretty grass level I guess, but you can't join a bikepacking club the same way say rugby, football, or even road cycling clubs exist. I massively appreciate the largely unpaid work Stu does for this community. It is fantastic.

My bikepacking fire did spontaneously combust at the ripe old age of 19, but I am weird. Seeing as no structure exists, this must be pretty true of most people who are into bikepacking. Therefore if we managed it then clearly others can. However I am pretty sure it would have been a faster start had there been a group of people to do it with.

If the mountain biking club at uni had done bikepacking trips then I'd have signed up. That sort of leveling playing field where the main talent is energy and everyone looks out for each other would have been alright.

There is not a clear path to learn in the same way there was in rugby, football, or athletics. I understand why not as any grass roots community relies on volunteer labour. In those controlled environment team sports the coach benefits from the new member, and is only committing a couple of hours. The costs would be highter and the benefits much less direct.

There sort of needs to be some level of symbiotic relationship where both parties benefit from mentorship.

Saying that, I might start one. First weekend of each month somewhere in the Cotswolds? 4pm-12am but flexible on times? Distances again flexible but exceedingly patient as I want it to be an inclusive learning experience. From doing a long distance walking association (LDWA) social event the leader knew the spots on the route where women could discretely go in the woods and catch up with the group so I would do that as that group was predominantly female.

What do I have to gain?
Paying it backwards to my coaches growing up
Building a community
People to go oooooh ekk ain't that pretty to
Learn from others learning
Would be fantastic for my teaching application
Yup, socialisation starved me has convinced myself this is a good idea. Will have to wait and see the reality. Build it and they will come?

From conversations I've had with quite a number of people (several of whom are female)

I go bikepacking with a woman and she would never ever wild camp solo for the fear of what may happen -its not the fear of werewolves or outisde natural toilets that puts her off The worst thing that could happen is very different from our fear of what is the worst that could happen. It a small sample size though.
When she does solo rides she always stops somewhere official for safety and she has been doing this for longer than i have.

She has done 18 days salo abroad so its not distance or time that puts her off.
I suspect the number of solo women wild campers is also considerably smaller than men
then the demographics play in join a group and you may well be the only woman on the ride. For whatever reason cycling does seem a white male thing - I dont really understand why.

The other issue is I used to noob rides locally and they get tedious - you give up a days riding in order to ride to do tame trails slowly and often with walking involved where none is needed [ up and down]. They only ever ride your ride so never get fitter and 1 turns up if it rains! How many of us would give up a precious weekend riding to do 20 miles each day with a camp ?
and then there is this

Cycling, carrying your own kit, navigating and feeding yourself, topped off with sleeping on some random hillside or forest perhaps isn't the big crowd puller some imagine?

Perhaps we could do something annually - you know like we do winter BAM where we organise a local bikepacking trip for noobs and see what happens?I know the person who runs some massive gravel page on FB - I dont do FB so have no idea of the name but that may be a good place to attract interest etc.
Summer virgin BAM - might want to work on the name mind but I leave that task to Reg and his helicopter view from the sky.

runs some massive gravel page on FB

They're just roadies in drag Actually, if you had to select a cycling demographic for likely potential victims, then I'm really not sure what it'd be.

Perhaps we could do something annually

What, like the winter bivvies, held in locations throughout the UK, very sociable and open to absolutely everyone?

Bearbonesnorm wrote: ↑Fri Oct 02, 2020 8:10 pm

Perhaps we could do something annually

What, like the winter bivvies, held in locations throughout the UK, very sociable and open to absolutely everyone?

Yeah, but. Winter. Hardly the most conducive environment. Hell, I reckon I'm pretty committed (or should be) and I had to turn back a couple of years ago when I was ploutering through thigh-deep snow.

Lazarus wrote: ↑Fri Oct 02, 2020 7:58 pm she would never ever wild camp solo for the fear of what may happen

Absolutely understand.

But - Trep, do you feel able to help us out here? Your solos are legendary, and you presumably feel at ease out there?

Lazarus wrote: ↑Fri Oct 02, 2020 7:58 pm

From conversations I've had with quite a number of people (several of whom are female)

Just a few random , disjointed thoughts
Coming from a long distance hiking background (predominantly in the US) where women make up about 30% of people on trail, bikepacking, sadly seems to be lagging far behind ( in the UK at least.

However remote the chances , the fear of violence for many(most?) women is very real. Among the hikers that I've chatted to on the subject the general consensus seemed to be that the further away from habitation/roads/trailheads the safer they felt. As for pooping behind a bush and not showering for a week and more, most thru hikers seem embrace it to the point of revelling in it .
Perhaps for some women the freedom from society's expectation that they do their hair and make-up every day is an added bonus.

Yeah, but. Winter. Hardly the most conducive environment. Hell, I reckon I'm pretty committed (or should be) and I had to turn back a couple of years ago when I was ploutering through thigh-deep snow.

The weather for RTTS doesn't tend to be much better.

Scattamah wrote: ↑Fri Oct 02, 2020 1:04 pm

Alh14 wrote: ↑Fri Oct 02, 2020 12:18 pmNot having riding buddies is what is stopping me doing a proper trip more often...

Nahhh...that's not it ; ) Get out solo...even if overnight. You're missing a trick here. Solo = go at your own pace...so when you get to the top of that climb for a killer view...or you find that sweet bivvy spot, you can take all the time you want...or none at all.

I've had equally memorable trips both solo and with hedge-dossing folk from here and elsewhere. Sometimes you start out on your own and you end up riding with folks...and vice versa. All part of the adventure.

Greetz

S.

The majority of ny trips are solo. Nit because I csnt find people to buddy with, and not that I'm antisocial. But a lot of the time my trips are cathartic / therapeutic and solo suits me just fine. Im the master of my own destiny.

ootini wrote: ↑Fri Oct 02, 2020 10:13 pm

Scattamah wrote: ↑Fri Oct 02, 2020 1:04 pm

Alh14 wrote: ↑Fri Oct 02, 2020 12:18 pmNot having riding buddies is what is stopping me doing a proper trip more often...

Nahhh...that's not it ; ) Get out solo...even if overnight. You're missing a trick here. Solo = go at your own pace...so when you get to the top of that climb for a killer view...or you find that sweet bivvy spot, you can take all the time you want...or none at all.

I've had equally memorable trips both solo and with hedge-dossing folk from here and elsewhere. Sometimes you start out on your own and you end up riding with folks...and vice versa. All part of the adventure.

Greetz

S.

The majority of ny trips are solo. Nit because I csnt find people to buddy with, and not that I'm antisocial. But a lot of the time my trips are cathartic / therapeutic and solo suits me just fine. Im the master of my own destiny.

Almost of my trips are solo but beware this is a slippery slope leading to you becoming an anti-social lone wolf out of preference!!

A question for me is do more people want to get into bikepacking or do they want to be seen to be into bikepacking? People that really want to do something will find a way but I think there are many who want to try it or do it occasionally as another cool outdoor thing to do. I also think the social media's have created an unrealistic vision of many outdoor persuits in that they are always to stunning iconic places, always have excellent weather and only stunningly attractive people seem to do it. Also if it wasn't shared all over all the social media channels did it even happen? And if it's going to be on social media it definately requires all the right kit so you look the part and bungying a couple bags to a tatty old hybrid/commuter won't do at all.

As has been said already previous generations were more about the actual doing any way possible while I feel the current view is I need all the right kit or I can't do it. This is reflected in the MTB magazine's as well, improve your riding by spending a fortune on this latest must have piece of equipment to replace your old last month's piece of expensive must have piece of equipment.

Hi everyone,

Apologies for the absence on my own thread.

Some great responses! Was not expecting this many replies and it'll take me a collate all the info but looking forward to it.

I'm sure I'll have plenty more questions and answers for you all.

Cheers