Not sure whether I should have put this in classifieds?

I was thinking about the WRT yesterday and thought that it might be nice to have a ladies LHC. The LHC is great and over the years it's brought lots of people together who to be honest, would have being best kept apart

I know from my coaching days that women sometimes prefer to hunt in packs without the male of the species, so wondered whether there might be any ladies willing to head such a thing. I'd obviously be more than happy to help with route planning etc.

I'd obviously be more than happy to help with route planning etc.

That made me chuckle; it's almost as if women can't read a map... [oh, I do love a good stereotype ]

Seriously though, that seems a good idea to encourage those interested in having a go at bikepacking but perceive riding with a group of testosterone-filled males a little intimidating. I'm generally of the opinion that everyone can just muck in together without any type of separation but sometimes you have to be realistic about what people want and what might encourage more groups of people getting involved

sometimes you have to be realistic about what people want and what might encourage more groups of people getting involved

Indeed Peter and that was really why I mentioned route planning as I'm fairly certain that feeling responsible for inflicting a poor route would put some people off .... whereas, it's never bothered me

What's an LHC?

Borderer wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2019 1:08 pm What's an LHC?

Lonely Hearts Club.

Quick question Stu - how many ladies attended last weekend's BB200? I know there was Cath and one other (Andrea?) in John's photos and Shona was due to ride but were they the only ones?

It's a personal bugbear and I realise that not all women agree, but I really wish people would stop calling us 'ladies'. It's seriously patronising. Mind you, 'girls' is even worse.

whitestone wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2019 1:10 pm

Borderer wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2019 1:08 pm What's an LHC?

Lonely Hearts Club.

Ah. If this is some sort of lesbian dating thing then sign me up.
I haven't had a shag in ages.

how many ladies attended last weekend's BB200?

There was, Cath, Andrea, Shona and Hetty. Shona was on the 300 but bailed when Rich become poorly but the others all finished

What's an LHC?

Didn't really explain that did I ... Lonely Hearts Club. For those who have no one to ride with but for one reason or another would like to. Someone steps forward and devises a route taking into account the fitness / experience of those riding and in a fairly informal way leads the group, perhaps imparting some knowledge or whatever along the way and showing folk the ropes.

There's absolutely no reason why women can't join the LHC but as far as I know, none ever have. I just thought a female only LHC might (a) encourage more women and (b) give them the opportunity to band together under the title of 'Dirty Girls'. Something which is too good to miss really

Ah. If this is some sort of lesbian dating thing then sign me up.
I haven't had a shag in ages.

I'm up for owt just as long as there's no mug dangling goes on

Borderer wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2019 1:16 pm

whitestone wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2019 1:10 pm

Borderer wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2019 1:08 pm What's an LHC?

Lonely Hearts Club.

Ah. If this is some sort of lesbian dating thing then sign me up.
I haven't had a shag in ages.

Borderer wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2019 1:16 pm Ah. If this is some sort of lesbian dating thing then sign me up.
I haven't had a shag in ages.

PM sent

MuddyPete wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2019 2:33 pm

Borderer wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2019 1:16 pm Ah. If this is some sort of lesbian dating thing then sign me up.
I haven't had a shag in ages.

PM sent

I think you might have the wrong interface Pete.

Borderer wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2019 2:43 pm I think you might have the wrong interface Pete.

Publicly





Privately

Borderer wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2019 1:16 pm I haven't had a shag in ages.

Here you go:

Borderer wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2019 1:14 pm It's a personal bugbear and I realise that not all women agree, but I really wish people would stop calling us 'ladies'. It's seriously patronising. Mind you, 'girls' is even worse.

Just back from cleaning my foot from the oversized cow pat I'd stood in

It seems that all terms come with some form of "baggage" depending on the speaker/writer and listener/reader. It does depend on the context to some degree which makes things even more complicated. I do agree on the misuse of "girls" when describing/addressing "women" though.

Almost back on topic (and not MuddyPete's sidetrack ), I've spoken before with Stu about the low numbers of women in bikepacking events. Four out of fifty three, that's just 7%, but sadly it's not unusual, I'm membership secretary of a running club and we've just 9% female members which is frankly embarrassing. The overall numbers are low, typically about double those of this year's BB200, so just a single extra woman can make quite a difference to the headline figure but things are improving in that the last five years have seen new female members comprising between 12% & 20% of the total.

I don't see why a women's LHC wouldn't work - our cycling club has a women only evening ride every week and keeps going (mostly) even through winter. They also partake in the main club rides so they aren't a clique within the club.

On the subject of women's riding groups we have a strong number of female riders in my area and they are a very active group organising rides to various areas e.g. Bike Park Wales, Afan, Elan Valleys, etc.. We're talking about 20-30 riders with a strong core group of 10+.
They also organise multi-day cross country rides e.g. Trans Cambrian but they use B&Bs rather than under canvas; this is something I've chatted to them about when regaling tales of epic adventures sleeping in ditches under a nylon handkerchief and they erm, to a man, prefer the comfort of a bed at night. They love the idea of the multi-day rides but don't want to take that further step, even to tenting at campsites. I'll keep working on them though!
Stu has had the pleasure of the company of some of them in the past

Stu has had the pleasure of the company of some of them in the past

And always a pleasure Peter.

We all know what the road to hell was paved with, don't we? Situations like these are generally entered into knowing that they're carried out on a no win basis. Offer assistance and you'll be patronising people. Don't offer and at best you'll be unsupportive and at worst, sexist.

Knowing that you won't win, you simply have to accept that while some may find offence, others might welcome the new opportunity presented to them.

Shaf, do you wanna do a Muslim LHC or are you happy as you are?

I have noticed stu that on rides like the jenn ride and the moors 100 there usually is a good mix of both,
so much so it always sticks out to me more, as when we do bearbones events the female to male ratio seems quite low,
maybe we are just not trendy enough or us lot just smell bad

Landslide wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2019 2:57 pm

Borderer wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2019 1:16 pm I haven't had a shag in ages.

Here you go:

. Not being a birder I dunno if that's the male or female of the species though.

Borderer wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2019 1:14 pm It's a personal bugbear and I realise that not all women agree, but I really wish people would stop calling us 'ladies'. It's seriously patronising. Mind you, 'girls' is even worse.

I don't think there's a "correct" version of this. My wife calls all her female friends girls - and most of them are 50+

My neighbour has just just left her husband for a woman.

Bearbonesnorm wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2019 4:47 pm Shaf, do you wanna do a Muslim LHC or are you happy as you are?

Can we have a vegan introvert LHC too? We could either sit around being awkward or arguing.

Jennride seems to have a good mix and the female participation is getting bigger every year probably due to the fact you can ride most of it and I always book the weather, This years mob was around a third female out of 200
Lots of cake seems to attract them on route

Sally and Susan joined my LHC club a while back.

Sally and Susan joined my LHC club a while back.

So they did, I'd forgotten about that.

Jennride seems to have a good mix and the female participation is getting bigger every year probably due to the fact you can ride most of it and I always book the weather, This years mob was around a third female out of 200
Lots of cake seems to attract them on route

I'm not sure it's anything to do with the route. I can perhaps understand that if we were talking about the BB200 but the WRT can be made 100% rideable and as easy / non-technical / technical / full of cafes as you like.

Again, cake can't be it because we do plenty of cake.

I wonder whether it's simply a matter of the Jennride attracting more 'mountainbikers' and the WRT more 'bikepackers'? I realise any divide is fluid but as a percentage, I'm fairly sure there's many more women who ride a mountainbike than there are those who bikepack. The WRT certainly attracts more women than the BB200 but it'd be nice to have some more, especially some who perhaps ride independantly of their partners.

Seriously though, that seems a good idea to encourage those interested in having a go at bikepacking but perceive riding with a group of testosterone-filled males a little intimidating. I'm generally of the opinion that everyone can just muck in together without any type of separation but sometimes you have to be realistic about what people want and what might encourage more groups of people getting involved

FWIW, it was pointed out to me RE the TNR that while some women are quite happy to ride and pitch up and bivi with some bikepacker blokes, by the time you're into rides like that they're generally fairly confident types anyway, but it's not always the case. I might be putting this across wrong through my take on it but women having a radar for 'who's the potential creep in this situation?' is something most of us probably aren't aware of. That was the bit I hadn't really appreciated. So making it more likely that the women who'd rather bivi or ride with other women (as part of a mixed group, or themselves) can do so is a good thing. Doesn't need to be any fanfare about it, just for ride planners to do something that encourages higher numbers and shifts that 5/95% split you usually get at bike events.