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Bikehike alternative?
Posted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 9:26 am
by techno
bikehike.co.uk has gone belly up. what alternatives are there for editing GPX files?
It was great being able to drag edit the middle of the route and to see the file laid over an OS map!
Re: Bikehike alternative?
Posted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 9:34 am
by Karl
Don't know if it's gone belly up but I keep getting the following message on the google map and can't seem to toggle to the OS map.
"Sorry! Something went wrong.
This page didn't load Google Maps correctly. See the JavaScript console for technical details."
Maybe someone knows the fix?
Re: Bikehike alternative?
Posted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 9:40 am
by whitestone
The Google Maps message is due to a change in terms of service that Google introduced a year ago:
Sept 2018: Google Usage Changes
As you may be aware, Google has changed its usage model and is now charging for its services (with a free USD200 credit per month). This site generates enough traffic that the costs would be significant and not sustainable. Therefore, I'm planning to move to predominantly using OSM maps.
At the moment there's a temporary fix to default to OSM maps - more changes to come.
You can ignore the Google Maps message but when I try to load a route I'm left stuck at "Creating course ...". I don't know how long it has been doing this but I first noticed it when trying to view the BB200 and 300 routes so ten days ago or so.
I'm currently using ridewithgps - I think you have to register but it's free to do so.
Re: Bikehike alternative?
Posted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 9:53 am
by techno
whitestone wrote: ↑Wed Oct 16, 2019 9:40 am
The Google Maps message is due to a change in terms of service that Google introduced a year ago:
Sept 2018: Google Usage Changes
As you may be aware, Google has changed its usage model and is now charging for its services (with a free USD200 credit per month). This site generates enough traffic that the costs would be significant and not sustainable. Therefore, I'm planning to move to predominantly using OSM maps.
At the moment there's a temporary fix to default to OSM maps - more changes to come.
You can ignore the Google Maps message but when I try to load a route I'm left stuck at "Creating course ...". I don't know how long it has been doing this but I first noticed it when trying to view the BB200 and 300 routes so ten days ago or so.
I'm currently using ridewithgps - I think you have to register but it's free to do so.
it's been like that (unable to load a GPX for editing, and no google map for me giving this message: "Oops! Something went wrong. This page didn't load Google Maps correctly. See the JavaScript console for technical details.") for at least a month.
and the java script console tells me nothing intelligible at all...
can you edit an imported GPX in ridewithgps?
Re: Bikehike alternative?
Posted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 9:59 am
by Bearbonesnorm
It's very sad. I think Dave mentioned some time ago that any service using google maps would likely find themselves paying out money or unable to continue in the future. Maybe this is the future?
Re: Bikehike alternative?
Posted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 10:25 am
by sean_iow
The cynical me thinks this was inevitable.
They provide free maps, everyone says how great the free maps are and slags of the Ordnance Survey for having the cheek to charge for maps, everyone adopts the free maps.
Once all the websites and apps have adopted the free maps they start charging and assume that people will pay up as it will be too much hassle to change to another source
It's not just outdoor websites that are suffering. The Isle of Wight Council's website is full of maps that no longer work.
It's a good business model if you can make it past the giving away for free bit to the charging bit. See also What Three Words for another example, free at the moment until all the emergency services (who seem to be praising it) adopt it and then suddenly they start charging?
Re: Bikehike alternative?
Posted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 10:57 am
by whitestone
The key (sic) error is this.
In the past to use Google Maps you had to have a site key - that big long block of letters and numbers in the quote above. This was specific to your site. Last year Google revoked all the existing keys and you could only get a new key if you provided Google with billing information - basically give them your credit card details and the authorisation to charge it at will. No monies were charged until you hit a usage limit. I don't know what the usage limit is or how much user activity gets you to that point.
To edit a route in ridewithgps it looks like you need to have one of the premium accounts. I've not been able to edit either imported or my own routes with the standard free account.
Edit: it looks like you need the "Premium" account at $80/year.
Re: Bikehike alternative?
Posted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 11:34 am
by techno
whitestone wrote: ↑Wed Oct 16, 2019 10:57 am
The key (sic) error is this.
In the past to use Google Maps you had to have a site key - that big long block of letters and numbers in the quote above. This was specific to your site. Last year Google revoked all the existing keys and you could only get a new key if you provided Google with billing information - basically give them your credit card details and the authorisation to charge it at will. No monies were charged until you hit a usage limit. I don't know what the usage limit is or how much user activity gets you to that point.
To edit a route in ridewithgps it looks like you need to have one of the premium accounts. I've not been able to edit either imported or my own routes with the standard free account.
Edit: it looks like you need the "Premium" account at $80/year.
Thanks Bob, I'll stick with my (paid for) OSmaps then. It allows similar editing to bikehike but is a bit more (i.e. overly) complex and buggier.
It's a shame it seems to be unsustainable as although OSmaps is great for the smartphone app and for printing paper maps, bikehike was more straightforward for gpx editing.
I also find that GPX files exported from the OS site can't be seen by my garmin. I have to pass them through something like bikehike Or gpxviewer for the Garmin to recognise them.
Re: Bikehike alternative?
Posted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 11:46 am
by ScotRoutes
Have you tried using Garmin Basecamp for route editing (assuming you have a compatible computer)?
Re: Bikehike alternative?
Posted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 11:56 am
by In Reverse
Viewranger and bikemap.net will both let you edit gpx files for free and convert routes to tracks/vice versa.
Re: Bikehike alternative?
Posted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 11:58 am
by Bearlegged
Bikehike hit the Google Maps buffers a while ago, but had then transitioned to OSM I thought. Sad that it's not working anymore,
I find flicking between the route creator in Strava and the OS layer in Bing Maps good when plotting routes, and then fiddling about with the resultant gpx in Viewranger.
Re: Bikehike alternative?
Posted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 12:22 pm
by padonbike
Oh dear. This is depressing.
What I don't understand is that I only used bikehike to plot stuff gpx using OS 1:50,000 and never used google maps.
Pity there isn't a way to make it usable in just OS.
For info: Bing maps allow you to zoom to OS 1:25000 and if you use strava route planner as run mode, rather than cycle and zoom in a lot you can eventually pick up minor tracks and then plot as gpx.
But I much preferred bikehike!
Re: Bikehike alternative?
Posted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 12:43 pm
by techno
ScotRoutes wrote: ↑Wed Oct 16, 2019 11:46 am
Have you tried using Garmin Basecamp for route editing (assuming you have a compatible computer)?
yeah, but i prefer having OS maps on hand. will try it again some time.
Re: Bikehike alternative?
Posted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 12:49 pm
by techno
In Reverse wrote: ↑Wed Oct 16, 2019 11:56 am
Viewranger and bikemap.net will both let you edit gpx files for free and convert routes to tracks/vice versa.
just tried bikemap, seems sub standard
But i'd forgotten about viewranger, that's really good andy, Thanks!
Re: Bikehike alternative?
Posted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 12:50 pm
by ScotRoutes
techno mail wrote: ↑Wed Oct 16, 2019 12:43 pm
ScotRoutes wrote: ↑Wed Oct 16, 2019 11:46 am
Have you tried using Garmin Basecamp for route editing (assuming you have a compatible computer)?
yeah, but i prefer having OS maps on hand. will try it again some time.
If you have Is maps on a Garmin and that is plugged in, then Basecamp can use them.
Re: Bikehike alternative?
Posted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 12:53 pm
by techno
ScotRoutes wrote: ↑Wed Oct 16, 2019 12:50 pm
techno mail wrote: ↑Wed Oct 16, 2019 12:43 pm
ScotRoutes wrote: ↑Wed Oct 16, 2019 11:46 am
Have you tried using Garmin Basecamp for route editing (assuming you have a compatible computer)?
yeah, but i prefer having OS maps on hand. will try it again some time.
If you have Is maps on a Garmin and that is plugged in, then Basecamp can use them.
i think my version of basecamp is too old for that function as it's running on a really old mac that won't let me upgrade any further. will try it again though, thanks.
Re: Bikehike alternative?
Posted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 1:08 pm
by trob6
I use Garmin base camp and have done for years it's works fine.
I can import Gpx files and alter them at will, all laid over os 1.50000 maps.
Not sure if I'm allowed to say this but I have the Garmin os maps (all of uk) 1.50000 unlockled so if anyone needs a copy.
Re: Bikehike alternative?
Posted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 5:07 pm
by Ian
I was going to suggest
https://wtp2.appspot.com/wheresthepath.htm, but that site has faced similar restrictions to bikehike.
I bought into Route Buddy a good while back, which gave me access to 1:50k OS maps switchable to google aerial on MacOS, where choice was limited. However, it’s at least 4 years since there has been any development of either their desktop or iOS apps, and it’s starting to show as operating systems and GPS firmware advances around it.
The double irony is perhaps they stopped developing it because people used other free services, which have now been forced out by Google, so even those who paid once upon a time are affected. That said, it does still work, but just not as well as it could.
Re: Bikehike alternative?
Posted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 5:20 pm
by whitestone
Does anyone use Komoot?
Had a quick look at their site earlier on. One off payment of £30 for the mapping (the single region and region bundles are not exactly wide-ranging). Looks like you need a device that allows you to download apps to make the most of it, my Garmin 520 does, my Oregon 600 doesn't.
Re: Bikehike alternative?
Posted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 5:28 pm
by 99percentchimp
This seems not dissimilar to bikehike…
http://www.hillmap.com/
Topo and Google Sat imagery next to each other and you can add a track - not as easy to use as bikehike but not bad.... will likely open in the US (California) but can be scrolled to UK and seems to be OK. Options to add layers and paths and print maps.
Re: Bikehike alternative?
Posted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 8:14 pm
by fatbikephil
I thought Bikehike had switched to OSM, but it looks like its still trying to connect to google, hence the message - hopefully just a case of the owner doing some coding tweaks?
It worked really well (unlike viewranger which is rubbish at plotting routes and shows every single waypoint as a flag which obscures the map!) so I'd happily pay a subscription if it was reasonable.....
Re: Bikehike alternative?
Posted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 8:21 pm
by techno
htrider wrote: ↑Wed Oct 16, 2019 8:14 pm
I thought Bikehike had switched to OSM, but it looks like its still trying to connect to google, hence the message - hopefully just a case of the owner doing some coding tweaks?
It worked really well (unlike viewranger which is rubbish at plotting routes and shows every single waypoint as a flag which obscures the map!) so I'd happily pay a subscription if it was reasonable.....
When I was playing with viewranger earlier it didn't look like that. Just squares on the line quite neat. Maybe it's a preference?
Re: Bikehike alternative?
Posted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 8:54 pm
by fatbikephil
techno mail wrote: ↑Wed Oct 16, 2019 8:21 pm
htrider wrote: ↑Wed Oct 16, 2019 8:14 pm
I thought Bikehike had switched to OSM, but it looks like its still trying to connect to google, hence the message - hopefully just a case of the owner doing some coding tweaks?
It worked really well (unlike viewranger which is rubbish at plotting routes and shows every single waypoint as a flag which obscures the map!) so I'd happily pay a subscription if it was reasonable.....
When I was playing with viewranger earlier it didn't look like that. Just squares on the line quite neat. Maybe it's a preference?
Could well be (operator error!) but I'm damned if I can work out how to change it....
Re: Bikehike alternative?
Posted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 9:22 pm
by techno
htrider wrote: ↑Wed Oct 16, 2019 8:54 pm
Could well be (operator error!) but I'm damned if I can work out how to change it....
I'll have a look when I can.
Re: Bikehike alternative?
Posted: Thu Oct 17, 2019 8:41 am
by jameso
Does anyone use Komoot?
It's a great app for having on your phone ie if I'm in London with a folding bike and want to avoid the tube, it's good for finding a route A-B. Also good for finding routes based on area or type. I'm not finding it any rival to RWGPS paid version for route creation on the desktop though.
I have some Komoot premier version codes left from the TNR (they sponsored it this year via funds to SSF
)
I think a few BBers trying Komoot out is within the aim of the TNR voucher use. PM if of interest.