All you SS out there just wondering what set up your running?
What best?
I'm currently using slot dropouts with surly tug

i have used most of those and a chain doofer/tensioner
Neither is any better than any other in the sense they all work so what exactly are the criteria here?
EBB are pain if it goes on a ride [ happened once to me and 10 miles dropping a chain was not that much fun]as who has a 17 mm spanner on them
Slides can slip with a QR[ so I end up using those chain tug thingies
Doofer is a bit noisy at times/can get chain slap
never had slidingdropouts

ON balance an EBB [if it works and both of mine always have bar the one example above]

Just curious really ebb looks the tidiest
I will be looking at new bikes/frames soon

My knees are a bit beyond it these days, but I just bought Ben’s salsa el mariachi and that looks like a really simple but elegant way to run a ss.

Have used all options for Rohloff rather than SS but the principle is pretty much the same.
I’d go with EBB and adj. dropouts in joint first. EBB on a Thorn and Salsa Alternators have been faultless.
Horizontal slots on my Krampus are ok but do slip occasionally even with a tug. Getting the wheel in and out is a bit of a performance as well.
A tensioner and standard dropouts works well enough but is the least aesthetic. Can also be prone to chain slip under extreme tension.

Your right the salsa ones do look good.
I've had less slippage with slot dropouts now using an xt qr

The versatility of the Salsa system is hard to rival

I have an EBB on the Cannondale 1fg, and horizontal dropouts on the Kona A. Much prefer the EBB.

Tried all of them. Salsa setup is the only one I still use for mountain biking. It just works. Slot dropouts with a tug for my commuter.

Salsa alternator dropouts win hands down for me. I've had all of the alternatives and they do all work but they have drawbacks.

Track ends (slotted dropouts) require the brake caliper to be adjusted when you move the wheel and harder to get the wheel out if you have a puncture, especially if you are using tug-ends to tension.

EBB can be tricky to adjust on the trail but main drawback is that when you change ratios any large movement in the ebb means adjusting saddle height and it also changes the effective seat-tube angle so may also need to change the fore/aft position of the saddle.

Some mech hanger mounted tensioners need to be taken off to get the wheel out.

bb mounted tensioners can be awkward to adjust.

Sliding dropouts do work but for me the disadvantaged of these is they won't be attached to a ti salsa

Al wrote: ↑Sun Jun 09, 2019 6:15 pm My knees are a bit beyond it these days, but I just bought Ben’s salsa el mariachi and that looks like a really simple but elegant way to run a ss.

Salsa alternator dropouts are the best solution I've seen. And really neat!

I don't think I've seen them close but look good on photos l.

Shame salsa don't make a steel hardtail anymore just alu or ti

Don't know why surly don't use them as there under the same group QBP

EBB for me, every time. Been a regular SSer for a decade and had most systems. Pinch-shell or Bushnells are great as long as the shell is in tolerance.
I'm sensitive/perceptive with bike set up or geo changes but have never found ebb adjustments to be an issue. Oddly I noticed the chainstay / wheelbase changes available from track ends more.
Handy EBB benefit is being able to adjust BB height. I also think it can be a benefit to separate tensioning mechanisms from all the other forces going on around a disc-braked axle. As Ben and Greg say, Alternators are good though. Credit to Todd at Black Cat for that design.

jay91 wrote: ↑Sun Jun 09, 2019 9:02 pm I don't think I've seen them close but look good on photos l.

Shame salsa don't make a steel hardtail anymore just alu or ti

Don't know why surly don't use them as there under the same group QBP

Paragon style dropouts work just as well in my experience.

This may sound a bit salsa bashing, but its not meant to, just my experience to add to the positive feedback above... for balance.
My salsa (steel) has broken due to a cracked paint finish allowing corrosion and fatigue failure.
Failure found at 5 years 4 months. Fatigue initiated into the material a long time before actual material failure. Salsa's response? Total radio silence.
The dropout design might be good, but its not worth it without customer service and the ability to stand by their products.
(Yes, I am an engineer with access to a specific metallurgy lab and a friend who works in said materials science lab)

Not even a sorry but no from Salsa or QBP, which is unacceptable in my opinion. A system that works (short term) shouldn't be considered as a viable solution as far as I am concerned.


p.s. I've sat on this for a few months. Partly because I have really enjoyed the salsa products and I think partly because they are so popular here. But, facts are facts. My frame is broken and whilst out of the official warranty and I didn't actually expect anything free or discounted etc. I found no response at all unacceptable, If I was the engineer responsible for the product, I would at least want a few more photos and history to learn from the failure. As I allude to, a disappointing level of product responsibility I couldn't live with if considering a purchase.

I wonder if I am the only one who thought this was going to be about short sleeves...

Like JamesO, at least 15 yrs plus here. They all work, it just depends on the quality of the system, and what you want out of it.

Ebbs in 4 singulars, a Jones, Arkose and a Niner have been faultless. Great for adjusting bb drop depending on different wheel sizes. But heard of massive issues with cheaper ebb systems, eg Charge
Paragon sliding dropouts on my Broken road are excellent, as were two Konas back when.
4 salsas with Alternator dropouts were all excellent.
Track ends on an All City and a Surly were fine

Rocker drop outs on my chi-ti slipped a bit, only system I didnt like.

If choosing a frame, I would look at the whole picture, eg frame fit, geo and ride quality rather than making tension system a decider. Edit; on balance I would prefer EBB, but only with all other things being equal.

FLV; your experience of Salsa wouldnt surprise me with the lack of long term distributor in the UK. CtBM was brilliant 5 years ago when he was one of the few Salsa resellers (eg the Bucksaw chainstay thing). But they do seem to have a very fixed view on the warranty period and beyond that.... compare that to Turner, Santa Cruz and others

Thanks for all the replies very interesting to hear everybody's experience's .

Looks like the ebb is a winner on the poll.

jay91 wrote: ↑Mon Jun 10, 2019 5:43 am Looks like the ebb is a winner on the poll.

..Which suprises me actually, I thought adjustable dropouts would be more popular / EBBs still had a mixed rep. Maybe the bad ones are behind us.

FLV, where did it crack, out of interest? I've seen pics of a few steel frames with adjustable dropouts that have cracked at the stay-dropout weld. Mostly one brand though, not QPB.

jameso wrote: ↑Mon Jun 10, 2019 6:55 am

jay91 wrote: ↑Mon Jun 10, 2019 5:43 am Looks like the ebb is a winner on the poll.

..Which suprises me actually, I thought adjustable dropouts would be more popular / EBBs still had a mixed rep. Maybe the bad ones are behind us.

I never had any problems with mine, has always done the job perfectly.

Massive fan of the salsa system, also found the voodoo system to be a good alternative too (not sure if they still do it as this was pre-Halfords).

Have also used the DMR system back in the day and that worked well too, little bit of fiddling to change a tube mid ride but worked well enough if the bolts were tight

Horizontal have served me well on road single speed bikes but not sure of their merits on a mountain bike with discs.

Strangely enough, in about 12 years of SS riding, not tried the EBB system, think the early reports of them put me off.

Adjustable dropouts for me - have them on two bikes - Salsa and Waltly ti - and they're easier to use but heavier. Been using Cotic track ends with discs for years and they're fine, if a bit fiddly. Also had an EBB for a while (Wheels Manufacturing BB30 adaptor) and while it worked OK it was a faff to adjust.

jay91 wrote: ↑Mon Jun 10, 2019 5:43 am Thanks for all the replies very interesting to hear everybody's experience's .

Looks like the ebb is a winner on the poll.

Never had a problem with my EBB's
Got them on both the Swift and the Pegasus and they have been faultless - No Slippage at all, and easy to adjust
I always put a splodge of Copperslip down there, keeps things moving but easy to whip out and clean up when needed

I only used sliding dropouts but must admit EBB is the best look. Don't think it's a big deal to readjust saddle when rotating the EBB.

I have a problem and there are a lot of moving parts involved with SD and when pulling hard the lateral screws get a bit loose if the chain tension is not perfect.
I don't know much of The El Mariachi system but I like it.

FLV - I’m curious about the fatigue failure. Where did it fail and how did you check it? I’ve got an El Mariachi SS, it’s had a hard life and has plenty of missing paint and superficial (I hope) corrosion.
It’s disappointing that Salsa haven’t responded but not sure what you’d expect from them. If I let the frame corrode enough that the section reduces and stresses bump up into fatigue levels then that’s my look-out.

On topic. Have used all options and Alternator drop outs are the best closely followed by EBB. I wouldn’t run an MTB with horizontal dropouts again.

I've had/have

Sanderson Life with Sprung Tensioner
Swift with EBB
El Mariachi with alternators
Charge Cooker with EBB
On One Fatty with sprung tensioner
Genesis Vagabond with Sprung Tensioner
Charge Plug with slot dropouts.

The only one that didn't work is the vagabond, a combination of chainstays and gear ratio means it's a gnats chuff off having to run an extra link of chain or it's too tight. Which means it skips as there is insufficient chain wrap. Need to play with ratios to solve that (it's 38-18 IIRC, so 36-17 might work).

Of all the others it's swings and roundabouts, the alternators and ebb were both faultless, alternators slightly more faffy as the wheel needs aligning, but that's a minute or two at most and never neds looking at again (just apply turns on the tension screws evenly if the chain needs adjustment).

Tensioners are zero faff, but aren't aesthetically pleasing and occasionally collect long grass etc. They also prevent any geometry changes. Swinging an EBB or moving the dropouts is only 10mm or so, which is subtle but if you change it it's noticeable but not going to ruin a bike.

Slot dropouts are marginally more faff to remove the wheel, but are significantly lighter. Given how infrequently wheels have to come out now that tubeless all but eliminates punctures it's less of an issue than it maybe once was when punctures were an occurrence on almost every ride if the hedges had been trimmed.