I know, more lightweight shelter questions, sorry. I've read back through the previous posts but still have some questions.

I've had a small bonus from work so rather than squander it on bills or decorating the house I thought it would be best put towards another shelter.

I'm leaning towards to Deschutes at the moment. How do they pitch on uneven ground? I'm guessing as they finish just off the ground that slight undulations aren't an issue as long as there's a flat(ish) area where you intend to lay down in it?

Ultralight Outdoor Gear have them in stock but they are not seam sealed and reading the info it appears that seam sealed versions are not available to dealers.

Has anyone bought one direct from SMD to get factory seam sealing and any idea on the total cost including shipping/vat/customs charges?

I have been looking at reviews and there is one on youtube which is less than complimentary about the build quality. What is the finish/stitching like on them?

Finally, one for Stu, how much would a carbon pole for one weigh?

I have the Gatewood which in most respects is like a Deschutes excepting the hood and smaller floor space of the Gatewood.
It pitches fine on uneven ground, never managed to pitch mine on anything else.
I got mine unsealed and used it a while (including rain) that way. It worked fine with only a bit of water ingress Into the pocket (Gatewood only I think)I got round to sealing it a while back with McNett silicone seam sealer. Not a big or difficult job.
The carbon pole from Stu weighs next to nothing. I could weigh it but I guess Stu will give you the figure soon enough.
I really like mine. I variously use it with a home made tyvek groundsheet, no groundsheet or a Serenity net inner depending on use.
Just the Gatewood plus the pole and pegs weighs less than a Hunka XL

I believe that SMD moved production to the far east for some products but I've no seen any sign of poor QC or manufacture. My Gatewood cape is fine and that's new enough not to have being made in-house.

Uneven ground's not really an issue as long as all the peg points are actually off the ground, the thing will still pitch fine.

Also, I've never bothered to seal either my cape or Lunar. The only issues I've ever had has being an odd drip where water has found its way through the stitching on the end panels ... where the webbing is sewn on.

Pole weight about 75g/80g.

sean_iow wrote: ↑Wed Jun 05, 2019 11:19 am How do they pitch on uneven ground?

Good. Likely some of it's flexibility is due to the stretch of silnylon and the generous catenary cut of the panels.

sean_iow wrote: ↑Wed Jun 05, 2019 11:19 am I'm guessing as they finish just off the ground that slight undulations aren't an issue as long as there's a flat(ish) area where you intend to lay down in it?

As with any tarp/tarp tent/not freestanding pyramid shaped tent, you can adjust how high it shall sit above the ground by pitching it high or low and adjusting the tie outs as you prefer.
the amount of wind often goes hand in hand with the amount of condensation and thus, thankfully, your pitch height will suit the conditions just perfectly.

Lot's of wind = no condensation -> low pitch perfect; can handle higher winds, less draughty inside and doesn't matter if you touch the fabric when getting up and have slightly less room.
No wind = lot's of condensation -> high pitch perfect; more draughty, condensation minimised, more room when moving about, less likely to touch wet walls.

Seam sealing is dead easy. Pitch it taut. Use all guy lines.
dilute silicone (DIY shop) in medicinal benzine (cleaning petrol?) to about 1:10. Shake well. Apply with a thin brush. Give it a day to dry and cure. Done.
Usually silnylon needs reproofing after about 100-150 nights - depends on where (UV intensity) it was used and what fabric/coating it is. It's done the same, just with a roll instead of a brush and dilution of about 1:20. But until then, happy camping

I'm actually thinking of taking mine to a very, very windy place...
Used it during Helene and the following storm last autumn in Scotland when Munro bagging by some ridge classics. I did find some sheltered spots, yet still windy and It survived alright.
Worse conditions when skimo'ing in the wintry Alps. Much better than a flat tarp or bivybag in light snow fall and some wind.

The Deschutes - like all similar style tents/tarps - stability relies much on how well the tie outs are placed and how stable the central pole is. In Scotland I used both my Fizan Compact hiking poles as one alone flexed too much in strong gusts to settle my nerves. In wintry Alps I use stronger Exped or BD poles (Fizan Compact for skiing is asking for trouble...).
So, when pitching it in an exposed place, make sure your pegs are all bomb proof and the pole can take a beating.

I've seen reviews/videos where there's complaints about the stitching on recent SMD products. I've the Gatewood and I've been over it looking at the workmanship on every seam and stitch. While it may not win The Great British Sewing Bee (it's a TV programme for Stu's information) it's certainly good quality with just a few short sections coming within a couple of mm of the edge of the seam. There's no point at which the stitching misses the seam.

The Gatewood and Deschutes are very similar in size and design, in actual use I've only ever pitched on rough tussocky ground and it's been fine. You do need to work out which of the tie-out loops gives you the best pitch in each situation - if the pole is in a bit of a dip then it's effectively shorter so using the longest part of the tie-outs will lead to the panels being slack.

Not been out in a downpour in it yet, only windy conditions. Cath did take it with her on the HT550 but didn't get to use it.

Alpinum wrote: ↑Wed Jun 05, 2019 1:52 pm

and the pole can take a beating.
[/quote]
Sorry, I will grow up one day?!

I'd concur with the above. Re seam sealing - I did mine knowing it would get a lot of wet weather use. I took it to my favourite tent testing ground first time out (the Isle of Man) where it survived 7 hours of horizontal heavy rain with nowt but a drip from the wee loop at the top. The problem (its not much of one) is that the webbing loop soaks up water and it seeps though to drip every few seconds.

Similar thing happened the other Saturday eve with a night of heavy rain, just the odd drip so no real issue.

Tussock pitch! It takes a wee while to get the hang of pitching but once you get used to it, its easy. BB poles also recommended

htrider wrote: ↑Wed Jun 05, 2019 7:19 pm The problem (its not much of one) is that the webbing loop soaks up water and it seeps though to drip every few seconds.

Thinned silicone from both sides did the trick on mine it seems. Had some very rubbish weather for days in autumn and no drops at all

Alpinum wrote: ↑Wed Jun 05, 2019 7:30 pm

htrider wrote: ↑Wed Jun 05, 2019 7:19 pm The problem (its not much of one) is that the webbing loop soaks up water and it seeps though to drip every few seconds.

Thinned silicone from both sides did the trick on mine it seems. Had some very rubbish weather for days in autumn and no drops at all

will give it a try

Update on the Deschutes

I splashed out and bought one, it was from Ultralight Outdoor Gear. Despite my worries and the experience of the you-tuber the quality is excellent. All the seams are neat, the stitching is close to the edge but only on the part of the seam that doesn't do anything and any more material there is just extra weight. I also bought a BB carbon pole which is a thing of great loveliness

I used it for the first time on Saturday night as a trial. I pitched in an semi-exposed location so it would get some wind. With the back to the wind there was no issues, hardly any flapping and very spacious inside. It also rained in the morning but not for very long but I didn't get any drips.

When I pitched it, both in the garden to check it over and on the night, I seem to end up with the front quite high off the ground, maybe 500mm. In the pictures of others the front looks like is about the same distance off the ground as the other sides. Is this the way I'm pitching it? I've got the pole reasonably upright but the SMD instructions say to angle it so should I lean the pole over further?

The main guy absorbs quite a bit of water and then takes ages to dry, it's also quite a large diameter line. Is there any benefit in changing this for a lighter one, although I'd have to change the way the front is attached as a prusik probably wont grip on a dyneema line, maybe a separate line but to the same peg?

The Six Mood Designs recommended peg set includes an 8" nail peg for the main line. I took an Alpkit Spike which is the same dimensions as the SMD peg but it's quite a heavy and chunky thing. Is the bigger front peg really required?

Generally, I find you're better with the front higher as it allows plenty of air in. You can off-set the pole a little but do remember that the more you angle it, the greater strain you're putting on it - especially the spigots.

Shall I pop you some line in the post - Dymeena but with a poly' outer so it'll handle a Prusuk okay? Although, on my cape, I do use an additional line for the 'door' as I find it gives me a little more leeway when pitching.

Bearbonesnorm wrote: ↑Mon Jun 17, 2019 9:30 am Generally, I find you're better with the front higher as it allows plenty of air in.

I checked for condensation in the morning and there wasn't a single drop (could have been the conditions) so perhaps the high front is better, just curious as it seemed high compared to the pictures I've seen. Added bonus is that I can see my bike under the front from my bag, I'm not worried about it going missing I just like looking at it

Bearbonesnorm wrote: ↑Mon Jun 17, 2019 9:30 amShall I pop you some line in the post - Dymeena but with a poly' outer so it'll handle a Prusuk okay? Although, on my cape, I do use an additional line for the 'door' as I find it gives me a little more leeway when pitching.

Thanks for the offer, I'll try the separate line first. I also have an idea for replacing the prusik I'll try as well. If I get stuck I'll let you know.

Bearbonesnorm wrote: ↑Mon Jun 17, 2019 9:30 am Dymeena but with a poly' outer so it'll handle a Prusuk okay?

what cord is that Stu?

sean_iow wrote: ↑Mon Jun 17, 2019 9:13 am When I pitched it, both in the garden to check it over and on the night, I seem to end up with the front quite high off the ground, maybe 500mm. In the pictures of others the front looks like is about the same distance off the ground as the other sides. Is this the way I'm pitching it? I've got the pole reasonably upright but the SMD instructions say to angle it so should I lean the pole over further?

Likewise - the trick is how far back you put the rearmost peg when you are setting it out. I put the two outermost front pegs in with the straps adjusted halfway and the tarp just taught. I then pull the back out and shove the peg in where the end of the tarp is, strap at max length. Then unloosen the front two straps to max length and shove the pole in and up. Make sure and line the pole up with the front two pegs then peg the front and the other two lines out, b*gger around for a bit and hey presto!

(others may know a better way)

what cord is that Stu?

It's just 1.5mm Dymeena with a polyester sheath - the yellow stuff int' shop. Without a poly' sheath Dymeena is too slippery to work with line-loks.

Bearbonesnorm wrote: ↑Mon Jun 17, 2019 7:04 pm It's just 1.5mm Dymeena with a polyester sheath - the yellow stuff int' shop. Without a poly' sheath Dymeena is too slippery to work with line-loks.

I've got dyneema for my guys at the moment and a lot of knots need modification to work with it. Will get some from the shop and try it out. Ta.

Hi Sean

The Six Mood Designs recommended peg set includes an 8" nail peg for the main line. I took an Alpkit Spike which is the same dimensions as the SMD peg but it's quite a heavy and chunky thing. Is the bigger front peg really required?

I use Easton Nail pegs with my Deschutes. I think you do need a longer peg for the main line and i use an 8" one here @ 15g and i use 6" for the other 5 pegging out points @ 8g each. As you have discovered the Alpkit copies are heavier.

As you know the Deschutes has guys on the end panels to enhance head / foot room. I added two more guys to the two rear panels and this helps make it less flappy in the wind.

I sealed the seams with a 50/50 mix of silicone sealant and white spirit ( mixed very well ). Simply pitch the tent on a warm morning and apply with a 1/2" paintbrush. Dry by teatime

My Bearbones pole weigh's 80g, i use a plastic mineral bottle top to protect the fabric from the pole tip and i use an ookwoorks 30D 90x220cm bathtub groundsheet with it. The ookworks uses the same pegs

Not sure if the 8” peg is strictly needed but the front line does take more load than the rest.
If you go on eBay and are willing to wait a few weeks for delivery from China you can get very light ti pegs for much cheapness.

techno mail wrote: ↑Mon Jun 17, 2019 8:01 pm

Bearbonesnorm wrote: ↑Mon Jun 17, 2019 7:04 pm It's just 1.5mm Dymeena with a polyester sheath - the yellow stuff int' shop. Without a poly' sheath Dymeena is too slippery to work with line-loks.

I've got dyneema for my guys at the moment and a lot of knots need modification to work with it. Will get some from the shop and try it out. Ta.

I made some line-loks for my 1.5mm Dyneema guys for the lifters on my Lunar Solo - just cut some little bits out of a plastic (HDPE?) folder and poked three holes in them with a hot awl. Tidied the edges up with judicious use of a lighter. They work pretty well since the small holes give enough friction to grip the line. I've had it up in pretty strong wind with no slippage.

lune ranger wrote: ↑Mon Jun 17, 2019 10:35 pm Not sure if the 8” peg is strictly needed but the front line does take more load than the rest.
If you go on eBay and are willing to wait a few weeks for delivery from China you can get very light ti pegs for much cheapness.

I've got some ti pins and also ti v pegs which are pretty light. I would like to replace the alpkit 8" peg with a lighter alternative. The Mountain Laurel Designs one seems to be just the thing at 12g

https://mountainlaureldesigns.com/produ ... il-stakes/

But I cant seem to find anywhere I can buy one in the UK or Europe. I can order direct but there is a flat rate $30 carriage charge which adds a lot on to a $2.50 peg. I did think about asking one of the wife's American friends to buy a couple and send them over but when I used the US Postal online fee calculator I came up with $75 postage

Does anyone know of a distributor over here or can suggest an alternative that's lighter than the 33g Alpkit one?

htrider wrote: ↑Mon Jun 17, 2019 6:34 pm
Likewise - the trick is how far back you put the rearmost peg when you are setting it out. I put the two outermost front pegs in with the straps adjusted halfway and the tarp just taught. I then pull the back out and shove the peg in where the end of the tarp is, strap at max length. Then unloosen the front two straps to max length and shove the pole in and up. Make sure and line the pole up with the front two pegs then peg the front and the other two lines out, b*gger around for a bit and hey presto!

(others may know a better way)

I tried this last night and had a couple of goes but it always seems to come out with the front about 500mm off the ground. The other edges were an even distance from the ground. Looking at the cut of the fabric the only way to get the front lower would be to have the back higher which would let the wind in? I'll have another play but perhaps it's just the way it is, maybe the cut is different or they've changed it? If I remember the next time it's pitched I'll measure the length of the front seam to compare to others.

I've got a few hundred nights under both the Deschutes and Lunar Solo in all sorts of weather. I've never used anything other than normal pegs all round.

Pirahna wrote: ↑Wed Jun 19, 2019 3:40 pm I've got a few hundred nights under both the Deschutes and Lunar Solo in all sorts of weather. I've never used anything other than normal pegs all round.

You're right, I'm sure any pegs will do. I think my boredom at work and the miserable weather out is making me lust after shiney new stuff

Alpkit tipins with my Deschutes Sean, they work a treat. Handled a couple of good batterings. No need for anything special imo.

This is my best pitch yet (in the pishing rain after abandoning the HT!)

A fair bit of fiddling has lead me to this so keep at it But yes of the front end is lower the back is higher - good in still conditions but less so in a breeze. that said I've taken to pitch it side on into the wind with an extra guy on the mid panel loops tied to my bike
I use normal pegs all round. never given it much thought