My Exped Downmat Winterlite and Pipedream 400 partially failed me last night (both inside a Hunka XL)

According to the Garmin in it was a mild -2 celsius (28.4F) at 5am in the Surrey Hills. Alpkit's website suggest the 400 should be good for most people down to -6C.

I was wearing thermal leggings, top and socks. We are not talking shivering my tits off, get up and ride home cold but enough to wake me a few times in the night.

I have noticed this on recent cold bivvy's (albeit the Downmat is new to try and combat the cold) I don't remember always being cold in the Pipedream and had considered myself a warm sleeper. I use a quilt in warmer conditions.

Is this a sign of getting old? Is there anything I can do to improve the position other than buying a new bag or wearing more in bed? Do Exped sleepmats have an up and down side? Would the Pipedream benefit from a wash? It doesn't smell and has only been used 15 times or so.

Any suggestions gratefully received

Thanks

I feel the cold more as I get older

I used to have a PD 400 and sold it after 2 nights as it was no where near warm enough for me, even in spring - it appeared to have more of the down on the top and less beneath. In theory, that's good but as a side sleeper, I found the bag turned with me which lead to a cold back.

Anyway, the actual position of your spot can make a difference - under trees and away from water especially.

Also, rather than wearing a jacket, I find it much better to lay it across my chest / shoulders inside the sleeping bag ... bit like a little blanket.

I've haven't been cold in my 400 yet
I don't think I've gone below -2 but I do sleep warm

I have a Pipe Dream 600. The old one and it's been pretty good given its tiny pack size compared to my daughters Rab bag of similar warmth and cost.

Anyway. I do find that using a down bag a bivvy bag can reduce the effective insulation by preventing it loft fully.

We may be rufty-tufty outdoors folks but -2 is actually quite cold! Depending on wind and moisture in the air, an ambient -2 could easily be -3/-4 or colder at ground level, especially if you're in a bit of a hollow or a valley with water (as Stu says). You can get frost and even icy roads when the ambient temperature is above freezing.

Remember that you are the heat source so if you are cold when you get in to your bag it will take longer for everything to warm up. Either do some exercise to generate heat or eat something high in fat, like cheese, shortly before going to bed. Even though fat has more energy per gramme it takes more energy to for your body to digest thus heating you up a bit.

Then as Stu says, your bivy site can make a big difference.

Even though it is the XL- i didn't find my Hunka very big, so being broad shouldered, it would move a lot with me, and it didn't allow my sleeping bag to loft fully.

I have a Rab Superlight bivvy bag now, much bigger volume and it breathes well so i can have it fully zipped up, it means that the sleeping bag can loft well too.

Also another little tip if it is cold, take your water bottle and fill it with hott-ish water and place inside a sock, then place it between your thighs (matron...), so it is next to femoral artery.

I was pretty cold on the first night of the recent winter bivy (but too hot on the second!). I brought a USB hand warmer with me (as it's actually slightly lighter than my normal USB battary pack), I used that a couple of times for a little heat boost, really helped!

I knew I'd be pushing it with my 3 season quilt, I sleep cold and it was pretty cold outside (my water bottles were frozen with crunchy ice)

Even though it is the XL- i didn't find my Hunka very big

My XL is massive. You genuinely could fit a couple of you in there.

XL isn't that big compared to many, i struggled to get me, sleep mat and sleeping bag in there, when i did roll over in night, whole bag rolled with me (but that probably says more about my proportions than the bag....)

XL isn't that big compared to many, i struggled to get me, sleep mat and sleeping bag in there,

How big are ya I can get my air mat and really big winter quilt plus me inside and still invite people round for a party. I'd say that mine is no smaller than any other bivvy I've used inc' big Rab bags and ex MOD.

Are you sure you haven't got a standard Hunka? I recall Mike buying an XL as it was much roomier than his Rab Alpine.

Unfortunately due to a career in rugby, i am very rugby prop-forward shaped with broad shoulders, I have a Rab Superlight bivvy bag now, which they don't make anymore, as i love the single guy point on top which holds the bag away from face. i did feel very restricted in Hunka XL (although mine was bought from a sample sale, so maybe was mis-labelled or inscorrect)

jaminb wrote:I use a quilt in warmer conditions.

Can't you just use the quilt on top of the pipedream in cold weather? That's what we do. We have 900g 3 season down bags with 400g of goose down but in winter we also take a down throw each with us. These weigh 450g (so probably contain about 200g of down) but keep us as warm as toast. These are just a blanket, not a proper quilt with a footbox, so to stop them slipping off in the night I pass the corners through the hanging loops at the foot of my sleeping bag and secure them with a clip.

Bearbonesnorm wrote:

XL isn't that big compared to many, i struggled to get me, sleep mat and sleeping bag in there,

How big are ya I can get my air mat and really big winter quilt plus me inside and still invite people round for a party. I'd say that mine is no smaller than any other bivvy I've used inc' big Rab bags and ex MOD.

Are you sure you haven't got a standard Hunka? I recall Mike buying an XL as it was much roomier than his Rab Alpine.

I can confirm the XL is massive but I am not

You don't say whether you have used a silk bag liner. While are pricey (£30-£50) they are generally regarded as adding a degree or two to your bag for little weight or carried bulk. They also keep your bag cleaner for longer and reduce frequency of washing down - never a simple operation!

padonbike wrote:You don't say whether you have used a silk bag liner. While are pricey (£30-£50) they are generally regarded as adding a degree or two to your bag for little weight or carried bulk. They also keep your bag cleaner for longer and reduce frequency of washing down - never a simple operation!

£25 from Decathlon

https://www.decathlon.co.uk/silk-sleepi ... 82710.html

Borderer wrote:£25 from Decathlon

https://www.decathlon.co.uk/silk-sleepi ... 82710.html

Decathlon is often my first port of call - they were out of stock when I looked so ended up with a £50 Rab down to £30.

Thanks for all the responses.

Stu interesting you thought the 400 not warm enough - what did you buy instead?

I do have a silk liner but I find it hard enough getting in and out of the bivvy and sleeping bags without a third layer.

I like the idea of using my jacket as a blanket, taking the quilt will need another dry bag just when I thought I was getting to grips with TLS!

I think I may try some back garden experiments!

Thanks again BBF alway a font of helpful knowledge.

Stu interesting you thought the 400 not warm enough - what did you buy instead?

I don't think I replaced it directly but now use a Cumulus 350 quilt in the same situations I anticipated using the 400.