Right so all I have is a slightly older one of these just now -

http://www.gelert.com/products/x-treme_ ... eeping_bag

It will just about stuff into a 13l dry bag on the bars and while I was ok last night if it had been much colder or not in a bothy I think I might have been cold.

What should I ask Santa for? Needs to fit in the same 13l bag but be warmer!

or I could try a some kind of thermal liner I suppose..

Thermal liner will help a bit but only a couple of degrees. Depends on where its going to be used, but imagine in a Scottish winter you're going to need something a bit more hardy. Sure other people will have opinions, but Alpkits PD600 should sort you out without breaking the bank.

Thanks but alpkit don't do any synthetic bags. I am struggling to find warm synthetic bags that pack small enough to carry.

I think North Face do some of the best synthetic bags. They use Climashield-Apex which is as near as synthetic is ever going to get to down.

Lynx - +8 comfort so might not be warm enough.

Cats Meow (stupid name) - +1 comfort so kind of 3 season.

Snow Leopard - -4 comfort so should work okay as a winter bag.

Or ... just buy my Golite RS3 synthetic quilt

what do you lay on with a quilt though? My mat has no insulation (this could be an issue anyway outside actually)

what do you lay on with a quilt though?

Your mat.

My mat has no insulation (this could be an issue anyway outside actually)

There's no way I'd sleep outside of 'summer' using a mat that has no insulation. In winter there's a good chance you'll lose more heat to the ground than the air.

great thanks, just read the mat bit of the other thread too

off to google stuff

I have a Mountain Hardware Lumina that is good to about -6 or so, packs pretty small and is around 1.6 kg.
I used it for snow holing and camping on ski mountaIneering trips and it was great. The mat makes a big difference. I just got a new bag last week but also picked up a new Exped down mat yesterday, very nice, though I haven't tried it yet. Price was not much more than you would pay for a Thermorest to be honest.

All downed up for the winter, come on snow :D

The Lamina looks good

I might just look into using a foam mat in the winter, atleast they are light and warmer than an air mat, just rather bulky

Anyone tried these folding ones? http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... 2133wt_758

Down mats or bags is out of the question

Lamina 20 on offer at Cotswold outdoors.

http://www.cotswoldoutdoor.com/index.cf ... 81/level/2

Now I'm not convinced by OMMs '3 season' claim but if someone was looking for a small, light synthetic bag (maybe as a second layer bag) this might be the ticket ... I'm fairly surprised by the low weight.

http://www.backpackinglight.co.uk/produ ... p?PageID=1

EDIT: I've just spotted the phd Combi synthetic bag in their upcoming sale ... now that looks ideal for 2/3 season use on its own then add it to another bag for the depths of winter (which is what it's designed for)